Be Different Or Be Dead with Roy Osing

In this episode, we dive deep into the world of differentiation with Roy Osing, the brilliant mind behind Be Different, Or Be Dead. Roy shares his unique perspectives on standing out in a saturated market by crafting your "Only Statement." We also explore the "Goosebumps Method" to hiring, ensuring you bring on the right people to elevate your author career. This conversation is packed with actionable insights that will make you want to grab a notebook and pen to jot down every golden nugget of wisdom Roy drops.

Join us as we unravel the secrets to not just surviving but thriving by being unapologetically different. Learn how to position yourself uniquely and effectively, hire talent that fits your vision, and embrace strategies that will set you apart from the competition. Tune in to discover how you can revolutionize your approach and make your mark with confidence and clarity.

🎧 https://authorrevolution.org/241

Transcript

Carissa Andrews: 0:02

Welcome to the Author Revolution Podcast, where change is not just embraced, it's celebrated. I'm Carissa Andrews international best selling author, indie author, coach and your navigator through the ever evolving landscape of authorship. Are you ready to harness the power of your mind and the latest innovations and technology for your writing journey? If you're passionate about manifesting your dreams and pioneering new writing frontiers, then you're in the perfect place. Here we merge the mystical woo of writing with the exciting advancements of the modern world, we dive into the realms of mindset manifestation and the transformative magic that occurs when you believe in the impossible. We also venture into the world of futuristic technologies and strategies, preparing you for the next chapter in your author career. Every week, we explore new ways to revolutionize your writing and publishing experience, from AI to breakthrough thinking, This podcast is your gateway to a world where creativity meets innovation. Whether you're planning your first novel, or expanding your literary empire, whether you're a devotee of the pen, or a digital storyteller, this podcast is where your author revolution gains momentum. So join me in this journey to continue growth and transformation. It's time to redefine what it means to be an author in today's dynamic world. This is the Author Revolution Podcast, and your author revolution starts now. Hey, guys, welcome back to the Author Revolution Podcast. Oh my gosh, guys, today we have such an interesting interview that I cannot wait to share with you. Roy Osing is with us. And he is one of those types of people that you're gonna want to grab a notebook with, get ready to take some notes. Because if you want to do the unconventional, if you're ready to disrupt your author career, if you want to take on some new strategies that will blow other people's minds. This podcast episode is going to do it for you. Because there are some strategies that Roy and I discuss in this interview that I have never heard before. And I have been around the indie author sphere for a while as you know. And so when I heard some of these techniques, and the the interesting discussions and the the different methodologies that Roy uses, I was flabbergasted. And to be perfectly honest, I was absolutely enamored. So I have done a lot of the work that Roy has talked about, in fact, I have his books now. I'm going through them, they are so powerful, and so well written that I am just I'm in love with his teaching techniques, and I just love anything that's gonna, you know, break us out of the box of being, you know, the normal, boring people that we sometimes are right. So, without further ado, I'm going to let Roy's conversation speak for itself because he has some absolute golden nuggets in this podcast interview, make sure you have your pen and paper ready, because he's going to give you some step by step instructions. But the biggest one, my favorite one is the only statement. But you're going to need to know how to create an only statement and how that works for you. So get ready, buckle up here is an excellent interview. Well, hi, Roy, welcome to the author Revolution Podcast. I'm really excited about this conversation today, because we were just getting into it just a bit before we got started. But before we go further, before we really dive in, can you tell my audience a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Roy Osing: 3:27

Yeah, so I'm a guy from a small town in British Columbia, Canada, who, who grew up in the outdoors, with my parents doing all of the things that that kids love to do, right in terms of skiing and, and fishing and hunting and just like being in the outdoors. And I sort of always had a view of and a desire and a drive to kind of do things the way that other people didn't do it. And so part of my background, part of my background is rooted in disruption in contrarian ism, I'm pretty sure that while in it, I mean, I didn't know it at the time, it's just been through conversations like this, that I've realized that it started really, really, really young, and probably manifested itself in in many encounters and you know, getting heck for this and heck for that, and called out for this and called out for that. And I could never understand what was going on. And then it occurred to me many years later that what was going on is I was disrupting people's traditional thought and ways of doing things. And I actually had had the opportunity to leverage that into a successful organization. But so my childhood was kind of like that. I ended up graduating from university with a math degree. I don't know where that came from, but I've never, I've never used differential

Carissa Andrews: 4:49

What you couldn't do it with math?

Roy Osing: 4:52

Exactly the point exactly the point. And so clearly I did it, because I never solved the problem using a differential equation in my life. But I could do it if I had to, but it didn't seem to make any sense. So and I joined the telephone company when I graduated from university. So it was a it was a monopoly telephone company that I got involved with and started to learn a little bit about business. And I kind of like strategically meandered around and up the organization, because I was one of these guys have always questioned stuff, was never happy with the status quo. And I was always saying, why don't we do this? Why don't we do this? Why can't we do it differently, etc. And I guess people got captured by that, because eventually, I was asked to take on the leadership role of an internet company, just starting out. And, and we took it to from a monopoly organization to a competitive powerhouse that was generating value to the tune of a billion dollars in annual revenue. It's just I get goosebumps when I think about what we were able to achieve together. It was amazing. And then, so what I did with that, eventually is I moved on, and I've written seven books around the whole notion of be different or be dead. And so I guess, if I could, if I could describe my journey, it would be sort of achiever leader, author, not the other way around. I've never viewed myself as an author ever. I viewed myself as a guy that's done stuff. And I have an ability to communicate. And if you want to put an authorship tag on that, fine, but that's not who Roy is. I'm a guy that gets stuff done doing things differently. And I can write about it, and hopefully, convey that to people in a way that lights their fires and gets them to do things differently.

Carissa Andrews: 6:33

It's right, I think it's so important to be able to look at things differently. So I think that's definitely your superpower to be able to understand, you know, first of all, to ask those questions, because so many people don't they don't think about asking, Why. Why are we doing it this way? Does this make sense? Can we do it better like that? That is definitely a unique skill for some and a learned skill for others. You know what I mean? And obviously, this is one that was just unique to you, that you had innately about you. I think that's really cool.

Roy Osing: 7:02

Yeah, well, I, I did it because I needed to, yeah, we this wasn't I didn't create it, because it was just kind of a cool thing to do. I did it because in order to take this business where it had to go, we had to stand out in a way that people cared about, we had to be different and differentiate ourselves in a way. And the tools that I had, were completely incapable of getting me there. There were standard, what I call textbook bullshit, quite frankly, yeah, weren't very helpful at all. And so I had to create my own set of tools, where people were saying, Roy, what are you doing? What is this hiring for goosebumps all about? I'd be out there actually doing it, lighting fires, and getting people to say, hey, love, the vision, love the journey. Let's go Roy were there with you. And so, the other thing is, I have to say it's, it's really hard for individuals to break away, okay, from traditional thought from, from the sort of momentum of the past, because the education system doesn't really make it that easy, okay, because we get A's when we conform, we get A's when we apply formulas, to problems that, quite frankly, should never be formula arised I mean, a business problem is not a problem. Typically, that can be formula rised, because you're dealing with human beings, and no human being can be actually, you know, converted into a series of dependent and independent variables, regardless of what the AI experts say, we'll get into that later, because I got issues with AI. And so and so it's not really their fault. And it's hard. It's like, they would love to do this, they would love to break away. But it's so hard to do it. And quite often, they get punished for doing it. I mean, I've seen people in organizations get punished. Well, how can you encourage people to step out and create new boxes to play in? When they get punished every time they try it? Constantly?

Carissa Andrews: 8:57

It makes people not want to ideate? That's for certain. Yeah, it's not a good environment for that. And those people who are high in ideation, which it sounds like you are, my husband is as well. It's like, I can see that in that differentiation. Because some some of my kids are very much the check the boxes do the A is follow the rules, and some of the kids are not. And it's you know, when you look at the way the ID aiders really work with things versus the way that people who are just following the rules work with things, it's great. I mean, it's great that you can follow rules, it's great that you can work within a system to a degree but in order to really go places. I think you do have to go further you have to have those be different moments. So okay, right. Your journey is obviously one of thinking and acting outside this conventional box. Can you share a moment or experience that really sparked this commitment that you talked about briefly about the the different or be dead philosophy? Like Was there a particular challenge that made you realize that the methods wouldn't cut it or was it just literally who you weren't like you were saying.

Roy Osing: 9:59

Yeah. Look at everybody asks me what was the tipping point? And I say there wasn't one, I guess it was when I was born. So maybe maybe that point of universal energies converged. I mean, that's just it. The solar system goes, Oh, no.

Carissa Andrews: 10:15

What did we just drop?

Roy Osing: 10:17

What did we just drop? But I honestly, and I've been asked this question before as well. And I never realized it until I started getting asked regularly that it was really the spirit of my mother, I believe, that drove me to do what I did, to drove me to be who I mean, she was a fan, she was in a family of 12 in a little place, and got in a callback called gas bay in the day. And so if you haven't happened to have 11 siblings, and there's limited resources at the table, there's one thing you learn, and that is you fight, right, you assert yourself. You fight because we're talking about basic needs here, right. on Maslow's theory of height, it's not the one. So what it basically you need to eat. And so I think she was so she was a driven woman. She was tenacious, she was a protector, she was just everything you wanted out of a mentor, which of course, I never told her, which I regret because I didn't know it at the time. But now I do. It's Thanks, Mom, you created this, this person anyways. And so it went back to that, and I've always had it in my veins, I've never there, I'm very competitive as she could probably get just for my, my speaking, I'm very competitive. And I discovered that the secret to winning is all about differentiation. It's not about following the rules, it's being different in a way that other people care about. And I just need to clarify that because a lot of people get the wrong impression. They think, Well, okay, my hair is red, I'm different. No, that's not what I'm talking about. I don't care about the color of your hair, I don't care about your sexual preferences. I don't care about your pronouns. And I sure as hell don't care about the color of your skin, what I care about, is how you are going to be unique, special and different, in a way that other people care about. So it's about a mechanism to serve others in a unique way, in a way that nobody's ever thought about. By the way, that's the success formula for business, I just gave it to you, it's got nothing to do with anything else. It's about being different in a way people care about. And so it occurred to me very, very early on, that I needed to figure out a way how to do that. And when I got this opportunity to take over this company, that was a huge challenge, because we were coming out of a monopoly area, and we had to reposition ourselves and and you're gonna get into it. But I created a tool called the only statement, which is frickin brilliant, and love that just cuts through the clutter. And that's the way to create this kind of unique persona that I think people should be seeking to to get, as opposed to being a member of the herd.

Carissa Andrews: 12:58

Well, let's get into that then. So for authors who are striving to stand out, because obviously we all are, the marketplace is very crowded. Tell us what this only statement is? And like how could an indie author possibly use it in order to enrich themselves up?

Roy Osing: 13:12

Great question. And so I'm going to give you a little bit of background education around this because it's not a tactic. Okay, it's the point I want to make this is not sorted, or let's take the only statement tactic off the shelf, right? And if we follow the rules will suddenly be different. And you know, we will find a wealth of the world. No, it's not following rules. Not that easy. It's not that easy. It actually is piece of a process that I had to create, to actually get get the business on the right track. And it's called a strategic game planning process. Okay, so I'm going right back to the basic when I had to get going on this thing, the first thing I realized is there weren't any planning tools around to help me none, because they all were focused on what I would call kind of like textbook principles, and not what I wanted to do. I didn't want the principles I wanted to know how to execute. Okay, because performance does not come from the mind. Performance comes from the gut and the heart when you actually do something. Okay. And that's what I would say to the dudes who are it eaters, by the way, I get you, I want you to come one more step with me, okay, because I don't care about an idea that can't be executed, because it doesn't have any economic value, right. And so I'm driven by all this stuff. So I create this planning process, which by the way, it's been so much fun. I'm working with small business, we do this in 48 hours. So my pitch is okay. Can you give me 48 hours to create the future of your company? And they go 48 hours? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Are you telling me you can't give me 48 hours? You don't want to create value in 48? Right, simple process has three questions. Okay. You answer these three questions. And I'm going to get to the only statement in a minute, but not without dragging you through the strategic context. So you got to go through right So the first thing is how big do you want to be? Now that's a that's a declaration of growth. So for an author, it could be in 24 months, okay, I want to generate 1,000,005 out of out of my book sales could be that, or it could be something else. Now, you notice I said 24 months, because the planning period for my process is not five years, because the fourth year or the fifth year, never show up. Okay? Never show up. Not only that you can execute now to get a result in four years and really be excited about it. You execute now to get results now, okay. Yep. My planning process is in 24 months, you know, do you want to be a $500,000? Author? Do you want to be a million dollar off? And the reason we start out with the numbers first, is the numbers declare and describe the risk and the character of the strategy. It's a completely different thing, if you want to get 5 million vision if you want to get 1 million, and yet the traditional planning processes always end up. Why calculating the numbers at the end? It's ridiculous. Okay, isn't that crazy? Oh, my process says, declare, because we're going to build a strategy to deliver how big and I want you to get used to my nomenclature, because I'm going to be referring to this throughout the whole interview. Right? And for your audience, it ain't about revenue necessarily. It's about how big it actually is about revenue. But But the number the name is how big second question says, Who do you intend to serve? That's a question about where are you going to get the money? Yeah, okay. And this is really critical for every business, every author, every publisher, because it says we need to select a few customer groups that have the latent potential to deliver the how big, this is not a game of mass markets. This is not a game of mass audiences. This is a game of selective who's okay. And of course, we want to make them as few as possible because we have limited resources. We can't spread ourselves over a million customer segments. But maybe we can do a decent job on three or four. The challenge here is how much do you really know about your customer base, because if you know nothing, you're going to take the easy marketing way out, you're going to try and flog your book to a million people, you will fail, you will absolutely fail. And by the way, that's laziness anyways. And so let's say I gotta be tough on ourselves. We got to love it. No, go for it. So who do you want to serve? Now within that, who we're now going to ask the question, now that we've got our three customer groups, the next question we're going to ask is, what do they crave? Not what do they need? Because that's not a basis for competing. The craving market, though, is an interesting one, because prices are insensitive. And competition is few and far between. Why? Because nobody plays there. It's as simple as that. Right? Sure. So we've got the who we know what they crave. Now, the third question, I'm getting to you the only statement. The third question is how do you intend to compete and win in the whew groups that you've just described? Again, it's not about the mass market. Yep. This is where the only statement comes in, because the basis for how you're going to compete and win is all about differentiation. And so it would go something like this, we intend to compete and win by being the only ones who dot dot dot. And the strategy process is to now create a wholly and only statement that's relevant to the who, and what they crave. Okay, so you can't start out. Because if you start out, okay, creating an only statement, it will be about you, it will be about your view of you, it will be the ultimate narcissistic statement you've ever seen. And it will not resonate necessarily with the people that you're trying to target. Okay, so the only statement is part of a process. And for you authors out there, you need to take a step back, you need to figure out what your strategic game plan is, I had to do this May was easier for me, because I knew I had to do this because I, I've moved from leadership out of business into writing. But I think this way all the time, it's called context. And I have to tell you, Carissa, there's so much tactical work and thinking going on in the world today. It's like, if I have a tactic, I can pretty well prove that it does anything because I don't have any strategic context. Okay, so the only statement is the way to differentiate. But it needs to be an expression of a strategic game plan. That is not painful to do. Trust me. I had to do this quick and dirty, and just about right and imperfect in order to launch this business on a trajectory that got us to a billion in sales. So I can tell you, it works. And again, the other principle here when you think about the only statement, you need to think about words like unpopular You need to think about words like noncompliant. You need to think about words like disruptive. And the reason for that is it will force you to start thinking about what makes you special and unique in a herd of sameness, because that's the world we're in. Everybody's aspiring to be like everybody else. And quite frankly, it's nauseating. It is.

Carissa Andrews: 20:22

So what? Okay, I gotta understand this only statement. Is this now, just something that your business operates out of? Or is this something that you actually start describing to your customers? So they understand that you're the only one? Like lewdly?

Roy Osing: 20:34

Yeah, oh, no, this, this is your elevator speech. Okay, let me give you an example. Okay, whereas it was a hero. It's in the next one. When somebody says, Okay, what kind of an author are you, Roy? Well, first of all, I give them pick and tell them I'm not an author. That's right. We're just kind of like an achiever leader. Oh, yeah. And I can write, but if you had to break it down, my only statement is as follows. Royo Singh is the only entrepreneur, executive leader and author who delivers practical and proven audacious unheard of ways because nobody else talks about it that way to build high performing businesses and successful careers. You mark it, that that's who I am. That's my business. And if somebody says, Oh, yeah, are a part of the process as I break that down into proof points. I mean, so there's a there's a, there's a process here. But absolutely. Now what happens is, it's a draft, okay, I want to make the point, it's always a draft, why? You'll never get it perfect, because the world won't let you. The world changes on you too quickly. Okay. So it's kind of comforting to know, I can launch this. And I know it's a draft, and I can change it tomorrow. Typically, you don't have to, if you get it just about right. You know, the world will allow you to use it for a while. But but guess what you do you take that only statement as a draft, you go back to your who? And you say, hey, is this right? Did I get it right for you? Is it relevant to what you crave? I wouldn't use the word crave. But it is irrelevant to what you what you what you think what keeps you awake at night? And do I do it? And so that dialogue is an amazing, so authors go talk to your prospective buyers and ask I'd say here's what I think makes me unique. What do you guys think? Have you ever done that? It's scary. You need to do that. Yeah. So that's the only thing. It's the way to get rid of the claptrap that's out there. That talks about we're better, we're best we're number one. We're the leader, all that nonsensical, meaningless stuff, that all it does is contaminate the verbal environment with stuff that doesn't make a damn bit of meaning to anybody.

Carissa Andrews: 22:41

That that is such a great segue. So my next question was, in an industry, obviously, that's, that can be riddled with cliches and oversaturated marketing tactics, because I've been in this industry for over a decade, and we're doing the same thing and circling the same cycles, whatever. How can authors apply your concept of cutting through the claptrap or aspirations and narcissism to genuinely connect with the readers so that they can actually have that conversation.

Roy Osing: 23:08

And I'm going to be repetitive, intentionally Okay, through through this because it has to be repeated. The only way, the only way to cut through the claptrap is to be the only one that does what you do. Let me repeat that if you want to cut through narcissism, claptrap and aspirations, you need to be the only one who does what you do. Okay, that's, that's the Holy Grail. That's the quest, that's the end result, that's the end game that, that we all need to be seeking. Because if we don't, it forces us to come up with these grandiose notions that we have of ourselves. The ultimate expression of narcissism is what you think of you. That's not what business and transactions are all about. A transaction happens when you transact value. Okay, so the only statement is source value transaction is meaningful to the other person. So who in terms of what they crave, so if you can think of that conceptually, and start to work through it, you can't do it overnight. Okay. I mean, I didn't arrive. I learned this through through failure and pain and agony, I learned that pain is a strategic concept, by the way. Okay, okay. I arrived there. And you know what, when I look back on it, I go, there was no other way. But I'm here to say I'm here to help you. Okay, because I know this stuff works. There's no need for you to claim that you're the bet you're better and have somebody roll their eyes at you. There's no need for that.

Carissa Andrews: 24:34

So what are authors who already have like, a back list of titles, they wrote kind of what they wanted to write. They didn't necessarily think about their their reader in mind, other than the fact that they were a reader. And so they hope that those two things sync up. How do they then create an only statement to differentiate them? If they already have things that they've done, but they're, they're now seeing that maybe the direction should be different? or that they're the readers that they're trying to target actually crave something slightly different from what they wrote.

Roy Osing: 25:05

Yeah, so I'm not going to ask you to burn your books or throw. What I say to you is, there is a way out, okay, but it has to be the right way, Oh, you don't throw your hands up in the air. So what you do, you take a deep breath, you take a step back and you do the work. Okay, only this time, it has a slightly different kind of like slant to it. So let me give you an example. You still do your How big is still do your who and what they crave, right, and you still do your only statement. And now you look at the portfolio of products, you have ie books, right, and you segment them, according to what you just learned about the who. And now you try and find a way to connect, okay, those clusters of that cluster of content with a specific who group and the communications, okay, that you now start to make are based on the only statement that you've you've come up with, so you're not going to get a perfect fit. But this isn't a perfect world. But I will tell you, you will get a 50% better fit by going back and doing the work than you will if you just said oh, well, I'm going to keep flogging content. So now I have to give it context, you didn't create the content out of context. Okay, but now what you have to do is you have to give it context by creating the context and the strategy around it. And that's not a difficult thing to do, guys, it's just not. And it's so important. And once you do that, you will feel so good about the content you've created, because you will be giving it strategic meaning. Okay, that will serve you financially in a way that differentiates you from everybody else out there who was still flogging words against a whiteboard and hoping it will stick. Right? Give it some stickiness. This is all about giving it some stickiness. By the way, I've never thought about it this way before. I keep coming up with different ways of learning about my work. And now I've got the stickiness thing that I got to write down. You texted to me, because I'll forget by the time we're finished.

Carissa Andrews: 27:08

I will try I will try to funny, okay, so leadership in the context of authorship can be elusive. Like we don't really look at ourselves necessarily as leaders unless we are writing nonfiction or teaching what we are doing. What does it mean to be a fingerprint leader in the writing community? And how can authors leverage this to influence both the readership and the industry?

Roy Osing: 27:31

Yeah, I love this question, by the way, because I looked at I go, huh?

Carissa Andrews: 27:36

Did I stump you?

Roy Osing: 27:37

So you may? Well, temporarily, okay, well, you got me temporarily, you made me think. So I came up with this notion that by the way, it is exceedingly relevant. And it's all around what I would say you do you? Okay, people talk about that today. You need to do you in this context. It's it's really, really important. Because leadership for an author is about you doing you not having them, do you not having other people do you. And by that, I mean, you get into this realm of you need to do the work yourself. You can't be coughing, you can't be benchmarking. You can't be following best practices, which are espoused by academics and pundits galore. And I've written so much about density benchmarking, the most popular article blog article I wrote was called benchmarking sucks. And it just like went crazy. Because that's, that's, that's the source, right? That a lot of people use. And unfortunately, it's, it's in that they're doing you category, as opposed to you taking leadership on you. So the fingerprints in this case, relate to your personal identity, you your DNA structure, right? You need to do that. You need to create something in the image of your DNA, that's fingerprint leadership to an author. Okay, so for me, I mean, it lands on the like, I got proven and proven ways of growing businesses that actually worked in the real world. So I can point to that, but everybody has got to create that for themselves. So if you think about, what are you doing, to create you to do you day in and day out? Just think about that. Okay, and put the textbook down, put Google down. I don't want you gargling Google, which is my favorite expression. These days. There's too many people gargling the Google you know, when confronted with a problem and so forth, you can't be putting your fingerprints on yourself when you're gargling other people's and this will be the first time that I introduced a my concern about artificial intelligence. What that is, is an aggregation of the herd. That's all it is. Okay. So if you want to use AI to produce something, shame on you, by the way, if you have aI running in the background, it will probably kick in The out because I use the word shame. Right? This actually happened to me. That was really neat when another podcast, I did it and I said, shame on you. And we're closing up and the host started laughing. And she says, Oh my God, my AI engine just kicked you out because you use the word shame. So that's an example. Okay. Yeah. All of that aggregate tool. Okay, that may be efficient, but it ain't fingerprint. And so yeah, terrible. Okay. Look at I got it, you got to show me that this tool even relates to individual creativity and and people putting the fingerprint it actually, it actually encourages dysfunctional authorship behavior?

Carissa Andrews: 30:46

Because you depends on how you use it for sure.

Roy Osing: 30:49

Yeah, I'm just saying, Look at what I'm what I'm seeing, you can you can write anything in a day in and a half an hour, try and convince me, okay, you'll have to convince me that that's a function of your brain, and not the function of a million other brains who have provided a couple of syllables in that one paragraph.

Carissa Andrews: 31:08

So that's just me, it's more about using it in context of like ideation and brainstorming. So I teach authors how to how to brainstorm with AI, but not necessarily to write with it, because I agree with you, it does not come does not come out with the best materials. So

Roy Osing: 31:22

I'm going to chastise you, okay. Because this is not about brainstorming, if you have built your strategy, okay, if you have a context, then you're allowed to be creative within that context. But you are not allowed to brainstorm out of context, because all you get is what other people think. And what other people Yeah, what works for other people. Okay. And so come on. I mean, do the hard work, maybe it's that we don't want to do the hard work anymore. I don't know. But I'm demoralized.

Carissa Andrews: 31:54

I wonder, I'm wondering if it's also not having that framework, like when you're when you're doing a lot of things on your own. So this is coming from my solopreneur background, doing a lot of things on your own, eventually get to a point where you're like, Okay, I'm obviously cycling my own thoughts too much. I need to have outside input, to be able to help me spark some new ideas. And so that's how I utilize it, it's more of a way to be able to do something that I am not currently doing or think in a way that I'm not currently thinking. Does that make sense? Because I could go down and ask my husband, but you know, when he's sighing because he's remodeling my house, it's like, he's that, like, that's why, what are you gonna do about so?

Roy Osing: 32:34

Well, one of the things I would suggest looking at, yeah, everybody is looking for new ideas, but you don't need a whole bunch. Oh, yeah. You need a few relevant ones. And so I suggest, go ask your who go have a good point, have a session with a who go talk to the people that you're here to serve, not the academics that they're trying to blow out an algorithm at you.

Carissa Andrews: 32:53

So smart. That is actually really good. Well, it's about having that context. So if you don't have that context of those three questions, and then the only statement to back it up, so you know who you're trying to calm down? Of course, it's an all cyclists background that makes total sense to me.

Roy Osing: 33:09

Isn't it amazing? It actually makes sense. It does.

Carissa Andrews: 33:13

It does.

Roy Osing: 33:13

How weird is looking at Thank goodness you but you know, what gets getting back to our conversation earlier, the world is about creating ideas. And brainstorming I've written a lot about I think I think brainstorming is is is actually dysfunctional thinking, okay, because it's, it's operating typically the way people the way it's propagated and promulgated, it's not within a context. And I'll say again, okay, and I'll come at this contextual idea several ways could people learn about it differently? And if you have it that you've created, but now there may very well be and I know there is, are a lot of opportunities, right to deploy technologies, but it's within a context. Then I say, Go fill your boots, Carissa, go fill them full you, I give you permission, but don't come to me and tell me that you're going to create context, using these tactical tools. That's cheating. Okay, I'll let you do that. But I will allow you to do it the other way around. Sounds good to me.

Carissa Andrews: 34:19

Oh, funny. Okay, so obviously, you brought up crave marketing, but I'm wondering what strategies would you recommend to authors to employ to make their books absolutely crave worthy to their target audience? Is it simply going out and then talking to them, like you just said, or is it is there a better ways to be able to get that information and really harness it?

Roy Osing: 34:40

Okay, so another great question. Loved your questions. The place to start definitely okay to be repetitive is we can have this conversation only because I know you've created your strategic game plan and you have an answer to all three questions. You know how big you want to be, you know, who you want to serve and what they crave. And you have an only statement. Okay? Now we can talk about, let's unpack the, the cravings piece. Okay. Of of, of the WHO to serve part of the equation. Okay? And yes, I would stay say the first place to start. If you have five major customer groups, go have a conversation. Go Okay. Ask them don't don't You don't have to say what do you crave?

Carissa Andrews: 35:23

I mean, there's ways you have a voracious reader of X.

Roy Osing: 35:27

Yes, yes. What actually lust for? What do you really desire? Was that movie? What was that? Lucifer, wasn't it? Lucifer? What do you he just? Yeah, he stole my line anyway. Go start having a have a conversation. Okay, and see where that goes. But but here's some clues that on retrospect, in retrospect, for me that that I guess fit in, in the question that you say there there, there are opportunities to create crave worthy content, okay. content itself. content itself, can be can be crave worthy. The style of writing and the language that you use can be crave worthy. Have you read my stuff? It is not pedantic English. 101. And we'll get we'll get to why I had to fire five editors later. Okay, it is Roy's voice. It is edgy. Okay. It uses perhaps some words that that people don't automatically relate to. So it could be tough reading. That's, that's fine. I want you to work my shit. Yeah. And it could be appearance wise. I mean, I use the skull on every one of my books be different or be dead. What better representation of the ultimate consequence of not being different than a skull? Couple? Yeah, so there's lots of there's lots of opportunities, content, style, appearance, language, there's a lot of opportunities to consider. But those were just sort of categories that upon reflection kind of worked for me, they may not work for you. It's what what's important to to you and the people that that you actually want want to target. As as it relates to content. What I discovered is like my who, Mike, primarily who group, okay, are what I would call progressive business leaders who have a thirst for growth. That's pretty specific. By the way, I don't want just any business leader, I don't want any business leader. Because if you're not interested, if you're not awake at night, worrying about how you're going to grow, I don't want you you're not going to you're not in my target market, you're not even going to understand chapter one. But if you are a person, right, that's that sweats all night long, because you're not growing. That's that's the person I want. And so what these people wanted, I discovered or crave was they wanted, first of all proven solutions. They didn't have the time to read books and deal with the theoretical mumbo jumbo, and welcome to ROI as soon as I hear that, your man right. Secondly, they wanted practical things, things that they could do tomorrow with people with bias with bigotry in business with regulation, the real world, okay. Not all things not, not this Canisius economic sort of vision that says all things remaining equal. It doesn't the things aren't equal. And yet still, we need to play in a red ocean, not a blue ocean and be successful. Right? Yeah, I could do a whole show on red oceans by the way. So they wanted practical and they wanted simple. And so the content that I had just, I just went, Oh my God, this resonates so well. So they love the language, they love to the pitch Enos of of the, of the style, and the appearance of sweet it resonated. And as a result, it's no surprise that it's people are enjoying it. And that's, that's the main thing for me. Everybody can do that. Okay, but it's more about thinking of how how your stuff lands on them, as opposed to pushing your stuff at them. So are and so I've written off a lot about product flogging, which, which I consider to be the most disgusting marketing technique in the world. And yet, I mean, many, many, many, I'd say most people are in the product, flog, flogging business, we need to be in the demand creation business. Okay, and the craving satisfying business. So think about that. You're writing your book. I want to know what craving you're trying to satisfy my craving? And if you say I don't know yet, I said, Okay. There's a way to figure that out. Let's go back. Let's figure out how big let's figure out the who. Now let's figure out the craving get your only seven. Now let's go to work. You got to put in the work, right? Don't be just any other author or any other publishing house. I mean, this this opportunity is there for everybody. Everybody, if only we would dip our toe in it and have a goal and break away from those chains that actually bind us and really aren't helpful, put the cap of the textbook down, guys put it down, right?

Carissa Andrews: 40:04

I love that, especially in it like in the publishing industry, it's such a popularity game. And so when you do stand out, that's when you're seeing in the first place. So being able to find a way to do that for yourself where you feel good about it, and you're connecting to your readers in a way that, you know, satisfies them satisfies you. That's just, that's awesome. I love that.

Roy Osing: 40:23

That's nirvana. That's nirvana. That's what we're all trying to achieve. Like that. You just described the sort of utopian transaction process, right? People would think about it that way. But that's it. You know, we normally think about delivering stuff getting paid, no, let's talk about transacting value, right, and enjoyment and benefits and experiences and happiness. We are in a happiness transaction. Because when you read your book, when somebody reads your book, I think they should be well, first of all surprised. And that's a great element in terms of cravings, you surprise and they go, Whoa, I didn't expect that good. I gotcha. Right to give somebody what they don't expect. And if they can get enjoyment and happiness out of something like that in a world that we have today. That's a good day.

Carissa Andrews: 41:08

That's good. Yeah. Do you think so? You're what you just said there kind of had my wheels turning, do you think a good place for authors to kind of start to figure out like some of maybe some of the cravings that their audience has, without even speaking to them would be to go into like reviews of their books and see if any, like specific terms start really popping out that are repetitive. So that you know, then that okay, it's because they got surprised the twists and turns were big, like, should they should they kind of mind mind those reviews a little bit as well?

Roy Osing: 41:36

It's a really, that's a great idea. So it's really simple, practical way to start the process? And yeah, I mean, the world today, particularly in the in the young and middle aged, demographic, are spending more time doing reviews, which is a great thing for us as suppliers of content. I mean, different if we would only just sort of mine it and dig it out. That's a great, great place to start. Absolutely. And, you know, a lot of the chat, chat groups are good as well. You know, information comes from crazy places. I mean, I was once running for a strata Council board, in Maui. And when I was running, people, were talking about everybody who was running for a board position, and they were talking about me and I started learning things about how I was perceived, right? And I go, Hey, Jesus, that's a problem. Woman didn't realize that. Oh, that's great. They got so just this stuff. And that stuff manifests through your writing. Yeah, as you can help it right. It exudes you through the keyboard, which is good, absolutely idea. Great idea. 10 out of 10 on that.

Carissa Andrews: 42:44

Okay, so for authors who are obviously looking to expand and grow. And sometimes that means having and building a team, like a PA or, you know, something, someone that they're going to be working closely with in order to elevate their careers. You have this thing called goosebump. Hiring. It's a great concept, by the way, but What qualities should authors be looking at when it comes to collaborations and ensuring that they're not just competent, but also share a vision that gives them those goosebumps, like, gives everyone involved? Goosebumps?

Roy Osing: 43:14

Yeah, so the whole goosebump notion was created, because I had to figure out a way how to hire people that basically loved Homo sapiens. Like the problem with

Carissa Andrews: 43:27

Not my husband. LOL

Roy Osing: 43:29

The problem with with the challenge we had going from a monopoly into a competitive powerhouse was a transition a culture that was required away from taking orders into serving people, so that that whole service experience kind of challenge, I had to figure out a way how to get through. And if I couldn't do that, we would never build the business the way you know, we had to build it. And so I read reason that you can teach customer service people, you can teach them and train them in terms of how to smile, you can train them how to have a smile in their voice, but you can never train them to love Homo sapiens. Okay, they're born with a gene. They have DNA running through their system that says I really exist here and find it comfortable and I desire to take care of you. That's who I am. Some people find that idea repugnant. Well, I got here I didn't get here serving anybody I got here by telling people what to do. Too bad. Okay, you stay with that and we'll see it in failure. And that's what's gonna happen today leadership in every aspect of a business authors or whatever is all about serving people. Okay, it starts out with Can you can you identify the people that have the, the DNA and the gene running around and so I came up with this crazy idea. This is this was Roy's recruitment process that that actually got my HR folks just like insane The critical of it, and it's called hiring, hiring for goosebumps. So what I would do is it was like, we had a panel interview process, right? So I'm the president of the company, I'm involved in every customer service hire. Now these are union people, they could be managing people. So I'm there at the table with people in my organization and the candidate, will you, you can imagine how intimidating that must have been, for the candidate showing up to get a serve rep position. And here's the President at all across the table while I sat next to them, because they didn't want it to conduct an interview. And so my first question was a really simple one, I would say. Carissa, do you love human beings? And I would wait. And what you would do typically is if you were leaning in, you're suddenly leaning back, wondering what the hell no, man, this is this guy. Who is this guy? And where is this? I know, this is a trick question. But I don't know where it's going. And so they would say, yeah, yes. Roy said, I love human beings. I go, good. Okay, now the second question is, okay, tell me a story that would prove it. I have two kids. So two things were right. The piano intellectually got it would give me a story that was kind of boring and superficial and phony. And they would be ushered outside the door because I didn't care about their competencies and technical skills. That's not what I was. I can teach those. What I can't teach is this human being lover thing. So the but the person and I guess, guided gives once every time I remember some of these things, like the person, they really got it that existed for the sole reason, okay, innately to take care of other people would tell me a story that was rich in passion, emotion, and caring, and just total integrity, right? And it would just just like it's doing right now. It would give me goosebumps I go, boom, you're in. I'll teach you the business because you know, the essentials of taking care of people. Well, you know, what? People would say what, that's the craziest thing. I've never read anything about that in a textbook. I said, Well, there's a reason for that. Okay, practitioner, I'm a leader guy in the trenches. Okay, we, our objective is to get things done in a way that people actually like doing it. So this whole notion, and by the way, it's spread, and my teammates now after seeing it for a while, guess what they started to do, they started to practice it, they got into hiring for goosebumps, and it's spread and the spread, got organic, like a virus in a way, right? So we got this population of human being lovers actually growing in the company, like anybody can do this. You can do it to hire teammates, you can do this to hire people to work for you in the publishing business. If if what you want is an employee, okay, whose job it is to create gasp worthy experiences for people, this tool is for you. It's as simple as that. Because isn't that what we want to do? We want people who are surprised, breathless, left gasp worthy, telling people and friends and writing reviews. That's what we want, right? In our in our who they want them to who to behave that way. And so we need to confront them with people with a human being love or gene. And this is a simple little way that that that could work for you. Look it. I had a large organization, this was not easy work for me personally. I mean, I would come home at night. And my wife would say, Oh, my God, have you been out and about again? And I go, Yeah, we were doing goosebumps today. And she says, Did you find any? Yeah, I had. And I got to the point, right, I where I could stratify the degree of emotional response that I felt. So it was a goosebump. Level one goosebump level two.

Carissa Andrews: 48:53

Level three, I love it. I love that she even knew that though.

Roy Osing: 48:58

I know. And in his course, it was in the analog days where I started. And so I had no way to describe it other than goosebump level one, two and three. Today, people would say, well, Roy, can you be a little more precise? And I go, No. No, you just when you know, you know, you know, right? Yeah, exactly. Right. You know, when you know, anybody can do that. But it really requires a person or like, in this case of public you need to declare the culture that you want. So this is a noggin This is a tactic that bleeds into a culture of creating gasp worthy service experiences for their who?

Carissa Andrews: 49:39

Yeah, wait and think like in a in a PA. Because a lot of authors, especially indie authors, the first hire that they're gonna have is their PA and a lot of times we're just like, I just want them to do the things that I no longer want to do. Right? But is that really like you? At the core of it you want them to be as excited about your books and your your brand and everything that you're doing as you are So it's almost like you need to have that really excited reader as your PA also, you know, do they really love what they're doing? Instead of just like take my social media.

Roy Osing: 50:10

They should be they need to be an extension of your venous and arterial structure. By biological they need to get everything you have. So if you have, if you have been different running through your veins, they need to feel out. So you need to give them a transfusion of that never, never thought about before. By the way, you've got to automate today to new Yes. To transfusion, so they need to get you. Yeah, you can't you can't delegate the irrelevant stuff to them, you need to delegate the relevant stuff to them, because they are you. Yes. Okay.

Carissa Andrews: 50:47

I get what you're saying. For sure. Okay, so speaking of that kind of segue into that, it's like the writing and publishing process can often be really bogged down by unnecessary complexities and outdated conventions, which we obviously have talked about a bit. But how can authors cut the crap as you call it to streamline their process, and focus more on what truly matters?

Roy Osing: 51:09

Yeah, so what truly matters, of course, is described by what the cravings of the who. So that's where you start, okay. So if you know that in intimate detail, it serves as a microscope on your own organization internally. And so you should be able to, or it should give you insights in terms of the processes that are critical, right, that are broken, or that are good, and we just need to manage and measure them. So in other words, it kind of gives you a window on your inside, that should lead you to what cleansing agents are required, if I can put it that way. Right. Okay. Okay, and so. So if you actually focus that way, you get a lot more meaningful results, the what I would not recommend is having kind of like a process reengineering approach to it, which is typically inside out, you need to think about it in outside in is my point. So be guided by what the who tells you about the pinch points in your operation, right, don't listen to a don't listen to somebody who's having a problem inside with it. Because you may have to say we get over it, right, I'll try and do you know, some improvements, but fundamentally, is getting an A from from the who, and so we're staying with it, but we'll tweak it a little bit, what you really want to do is identify the potential disaster points in your processes, and you want to focus on those first can't because you can't do everything. So pick one, that the who is saying this keeps every time I do business with you, that drives me crazy, you need to fix this, start there, and then go back and tell them what you've done. So and bring them into your organization or into your year inside, which I've always found to be a remarkable thing to do. You know, when you ask somebody who's your customer to help you, they fall over backwards, they feel honored that you're even asking them the question, and they also feel they feel good about themselves, because you think they have value, too, that they can provide you and people that's at the end of the day, you know, that's what that's what we want, we want to felt we want to feel relevant and valued. And that goes to customers. So start there. And so you're going to end up with a whole bunch of ideas, okay, from from the who, and, and maybe other stakeholders, suppliers or an other other great source of, of input. And then what then what you have to do at least will work for me is I would have a list of all of the sorts of current activities and processes, etc, etc. And we would categorize them into two lists. One was a keep list, and one was a cut list. We tried to make the cut list as long as we could, and the keep list as short as we could, because the natural tendency is to try and justify everything that people do as required. Yeah. So so once you have the strategy in the context, it was relatively easy to say, Okay, this one fits strategy. So it goes on the Keep list. This one doesn't put it on the Cutlass. Now for for an organization like I had, I mean, we had it was a large organization. So the the projects that were on the Cutlass represented opportunities for me to reduce operating expenses, because they were producing delivering nonstrategic out output. So why am I doing that? And so I didn't have to hire as many new people. So this was a benefit is actually take the savings out of the Cutlass projects and hire relevant resources that fit within the new strategy. And so anybody can do that. It's not a large company, small company thing. It's an individual thing. Everybody operates with a process everybody affects a who with a process, just figure out where the problems are. and fix them. And then tell people that you fix them and measure what you what you fixed and make sure that it was a real solution because sometimes you run into problems. So that's what I do.

Carissa Andrews: 55:11

It makes total sense. I love that. Okay, so the creative process and the business of publishing are always chaotic that not just they can be, but they're always chaotic. How can authors and publishers, like ensure that they maintain a clean inside, as you call it focusing on integrity and authenticity and their work?

Roy Osing: 55:31

Authenticity? I think in the question is the key for me, because it's a concern. And a challenge that I think we all have. And we've talked a little bit about it earlier. I mean, to me, authenticity is, is that you, you have in math terms, a homeomorphic fit between you and what the who craves, so just let me repeat that. Okay. Authenticity isn't what you think it is, right? It's the degree to which your craving satisfaction fits with the who, right, okay, so it's that so it needs to be a tight, close fit, if you can achieve that close fit, so that what you're delivering is, is consistent with what they're craving. That's authenticity. Okay. And so the key is, the challenge is, how do you get there? We've spoken a little bit about this before, you don't get there by gargling Google. Right? Do not get there by copying. You do not get there by aggregative tools like artificial intelligence. You just don't.

Carissa Andrews: 56:43

It's more personal. It's more about you and the car view. Yeah.

Roy Osing: 56:48

It's more about you and how you fit with what your who has told you, they craved. Okay, so So in other words, it's not it's not a marketplace issue. It's not a mass market issue. And as soon as you have a tool that's based on aggregation, like artificial intelligence, you're all read automatically in a herd space, you can't go there. Because you're going to end up providing someone else's solution to a problem that you're who has, and it will miss the mark, as well. It has no way of winning, okay, so figure out what that fit is. And talk about your request and your journey to achieve that fit. Okay, so if you have customers, you can say, look, I mean, I know I'm not there yet, but but the culture I'm trying to have for myself, okay, the fingerprints that I'm trying to create for myself in my work, is to be as close to what you crave different language as possible. Because I believe that's the only way I can I can be authentic to you and have you say, Hey, you're the real thing, Roy, you're the real thing. And the only way that they will ever say that is if they can see, first of all that I am on the journey. I care about the journey. And I'm sort of getting there. You know, humans are actually quite amazing. They don't expect you to get 100% of this stuff, right? Anyways, they know it's an imperfect world, all they want to see is effort. So offensively they

Carissa Andrews: 58:17

feel a little bit like, you know, often standoffish by people who they think are perfect, because they know it doesn't exist in anatomy.

Roy Osing: 58:26

Oh, I know exactly what you mean. That mean? Yeah, we teach people that perfection is the holy grail, don't we? Right. And when we do, that's crazy. Of course, we do that. And I used to say, you know, I'm going to be imperfect fast. My strategic advantage is I'm going to be the most imperfect person as fast as I can be. Because what that means is, what that means is I'm trying a lot. And if I'm learning as I go, I'm going to converge upon that solution faster than anybody else. And it's a function of being imperfect fast. tons of blogs, I've written on that. I mean, it's just like, it's just like, part people look at and go, Oh, how can we do that? You're actually teaching imperfection? I said, yep. I am. You think Michael Jordan was a perfect basketball player? Right. Do you think do you think some of these guys like Lionel Messi is a is a perfect footballer? No, they're not. They just score more, because they try more. And they're imperfect born. And so why can't we transform that philosophy into what we do every day? I'll tell you why. Because we are so we are so guided and influenced by teachings that we can't break loose of that. Going back to that theme. I'm sorry, but we just are. We need to empower ourselves. So that was another notion. I guess we could chalk up to fingerprint leadership, you know, is the is the right to empower ourselves to break away putting our fingerprints on ourselves. Right and our motivation tend to break away. Man, I'd love to see a bunch of Breakaway, I'd like to see the people who are now sitting in that, that glut in the middle of the bell distribution curve. You know what I'm talking about the bell curve? Yeah, I want to see, I want to see 5% of those moving to the right, towards the different access. Can you imagine? What would happen in our economy and our culture and the narratives of the day if we had 5%? Not 20%, but just 5% move into the right. Can you imagine saying, Boy, wouldn't it? Thank you? Yeah, you're amazing. But see, that's the challenge you and I have, is to try and get people to understand the beauty of going there without help take the risk away by showing them proven ways to do it.

Carissa Andrews: 1:00:45

Well, it's almost like that. It's that fear based thing, because obviously, we've got the whole social structure aspect where it's like, we don't want to be so different that we get ostracized from our group, right. But the ironic part is the people who are idolized are the ones that do do that. And so it's like, we're so we're such weird rationalizers, when it comes to that.

Roy Osing: 1:01:04

Well, it's a function of of populism, quite frankly. Because the quest is we want to be popular, we want to be part of the movement, well be different is exactly the antithesis of that it's to create a different movement. Yeah, right. And even when you do that, you better be careful, because at some point in time, that's going to turn into another narrative herd that you want to deviate from. And so it's a constant. It's a constant revolution. I love your title. It is a revolution. At the moment, it's stagnant. And I want to use harsh words, to convey my concern about where we are versus where I think we need to go.

Carissa Andrews: 1:01:42

I am so there with you. I think that's why author revolution exists. Because for me, it's like, it's always been about finding the next thing to try going into new places, doing new things, not being afraid to fail, not being afraid to check new ideas, not being afraid to disrupt anything really, it's just it's all about, you know, us being able to think differently and view different perspectives. And I just love I love that concept. It's always been a part of who I am as a person. And now I'm like, No, I'm gonna have to incorporate that into my only statement.

Roy Osing: 1:02:19

Thank you, I hope so. And I'm here to help you, yay. Take advantage of me on here to be had. That's the more I'm the more I'm thinking about what we're just talking about this notion of finger you lit me up. The more I think about this notion of fingerprint leadership, the more it particularly in the business we're talking about here, the more relevant it is, and I'm going to do some more thinking about it. Because I think we could probably have a more a deeper dive into into talking about what that means, what it implies, what are the behaviors that are required? Okay, and how do we measure success in in fingerprint leading ourselves? Oh, sure. I never thought of that either. Because, to me, that's, that's pretty good. I gotta write that down. So you got a minute.

Carissa Andrews: 1:03:06

You'll have to read listen to this later and then remind yourself.

Roy Osing: 1:03:10

I'll do that I promise.

Carissa Andrews: 1:03:13

Really, because I don't ever listen to myself again. Recorded. No, nope, we're good.

Roy Osing: 1:03:18

It's hard. It's hard. I agree with you. It's hard to do. Yeah.

Carissa Andrews: 1:03:22

Oh, funny. Okay, so I got to ask you this question about dumb rules. Because I had to giggle when I was like, kind of researching and found this. And I know that the publishing industry has plenty of dumb rules. So based off of what you've observed at the literary industry, how can challenging these types of conventions lead to innovation and success for authors?

Roy Osing: 1:03:44

So first of all, before I answer the question, I just want to explain why the dumb rule what it is, and why it was relevant to me. It's a dumb rules is kind of one of the cleansing agents that I use to make it easier to deliver to customers, okay, who are always saying, Oh, we hate the rules and processes and procedures that you have. They make no sense to me. They yell and scream. And they leave us because they're so dumb. Employees hate them, because they're forced to say no to customers.

Carissa Andrews: 1:04:14

Because the stupid rule thing happened last night, I went to Walmart of all places, and I got three gift cards. They wouldn't sell me a second one in the same transaction. Because it was the same gift card. So two Apple gift cards for Easter. There were $10 for my kids, I'm like, I have three kids, I buy gift cards for you. And then they would let my husband go to the next register over and then buy one. What a dumb rule.

Roy Osing: 1:04:38

Exactly. And they're all over the place. And so the reason that they're important, are certainly in my particular case, is when we were able to either kill them so I had this thing called killed on rules. And again, people got little concerned about the wording. It's fine. I'll call them stupid policies. Say I never changed the word that they thought. So yeah. Ah, so the reason they were so important is they prevented execution. And so I looked at it not as a cool thing to do, but as as an element that if I could improve, it would enhance the execution, okay of the business, and it would kick performance of revenues. So this was all strategic on my part. And it was like in the same portfolios, cut the crap, the cleansing agent. And so we had a whole bunch of I had, I had done rules competitions, we had we had rules, committees, right and management's job was to make sure that the recommendations coming from the dumb rules, committees were implemented. And so we would measure ourselves in terms of how many rules we killed, how many we changed, because we couldn't kill them all we had regulatory, but we could make them more customer friendly, you know, we change the engagement process, etc, etc. So then laterally, work like hell, I'd show up in a in a, in a white t shirt with with dumb rules written on it with a big X through it, I'd be in the workplace of customer service, and sales and marketing. And I'd be walking around at seven o'clock in the morning with this stuff, and they got all your comms ROI, and as dumb rules, and I would ask the question, okay, what dumb rules are we killed in the last five days? So it got Nolan that this was an important thing. For us. This wasn't just a, something to play around with. It was a strategic concept eventually got. So then I ended up writing my first book years later called be different or be dead, your business survival guide. It's a hardcover book. And I wrote it in 2009. Okay, so I had a public, a local publisher, who I was working with. And so I was submitting content. The good news is, I didn't know how to create Word files in that day. And I still don't know, and I didn't have to in that day, which is another thing. In any event, I started getting material back from the editor. Okay, that that was completely unacceptable. I mean, I would read stuff, and I didn't know who it was. Okay, so in other words, when the editing function completely obliterated my voice, like, I have a very unique voice when it comes to talking. And the biggest thing about writing is the ability to preserve that, and it's really hard as you know, to preserve, but that's why I use language and, you know, crazy, you know, set up and everything else to kind of preserve the notion, but I happen to have an editor who was a graduate in English 101. Okay. And so what, what I would get back would be literally a translation of my content into English 101. Right. Look at it. Yeah, I'm the wrong guy to do that, too. So I'd look at it. Look at that. Objective objectives. I went through five editors on that first book, until we finally found somebody who had the foresight to actually sit down with me, listen to me talk for a while, and then went away and did the editing function, right, I call that enlightened editing. The reason that I put that an example into the dumb rule category is because that individual was influenced by a set of references that were completely inappropriate to me. Right, she was doing what the industry wanted to do. The use of language would never say shame on you know, there goes your AI tool, again, would never say stuff like that. And what what actually give back what she thought was the right thing. There was a definition of, of how English majors would do it. And so, you know, being steeped in that sort of tradition without an understanding again, of what I craved. What I craved was keep my voice please. That's my fingerprint. Please keep it. If not, you're fired. Okay, so now keep going through this. My publisher was going crazy, because she was running out of editors. Yeah. You know what, I finally got to the point where I said, I'll tell you what, I'm done. Okay, we're going we're publishing it exactly as it is. Okay. imperfections are not Because don't forget, I'm the imperfect guy, right? Yeah, I don't care it guess what, yes, there was a spelling mistake or two. Did anybody notice it? I did after I went through it after it was published. But you know what I mean, so it didn't affect the results is the point. It didn't satisfy my cravings didn't affect the results. And yet, it was so important. That was a dumb rule. And so I would say to the industry, just check yourself back on all these traditional processes and precepts that are in play and do me one favor, go to your who ask them what they crave. Ask them if they think this is an important thing for you to adhere to. And guess what they will say and just be led by that that's all Yeah, I mean, I don't want you to blow up the industry but but let's make it relevant. Dumb rules are a way to increase relevancy, I think. And we just need more people paying attention to it. AI is a dumb rule when it comes to creating content for authors who want to be creative. They're offset. It's a dumb rule. Okay? It may have other applications Fine. I accept that go find them. But why? Why don't we sit in a in a world where we take a sexy piece of technology and try to apply it to everything? Does that make any sense to you? No, makes absolutely no sense at all. Okay, apply it where it has relevance. And for heaven's sakes, don't apply it where it does like you i Do you have any idea how I react to chat bots, when I run into them?

Carissa Andrews: 1:10:36

I bet you run the other direction shut off.

Roy Osing: 1:10:40

I gotta tell you like, it's a great example of a problem looking for a solution or a solution looking for a problem. Somebody actually thinks that artificial intelligence can solve my unique question on a website. Right? How dumb how dumb can these people be? And how inappropriate is it? And disingenuous? Is it for them to think that they can prescribe an answer to you, when you show up on a website? It's just crazy. And yet every day I read another article this morning. Now I'm starting to get spammed, right by AI developers, and they're trying to convince me that I need to read this article in that article about how the customer service experience can be enhanced using AI AI tools.

Carissa Andrews: 1:11:25

That's funny. Like we will convert him.

Roy Osing: 1:11:30

That's, well, yeah, but you know what? I'm a Viking. So, you know, fill your boots, it's gonna take you a while. You gotta be a better man than I am gonna get into get me off my stuff.

Carissa Andrews: 1:11:44

That's it, and that's the hill you're gonna die on. Okay. Too funny. So finally, in the context of creating content that is compelling, right? How can authors apply that yummy taste and spit philosophy that you have to experiment with ideas and genres? Like, I want to, I want to make sure that their ideas the way that they produce them are fresh and like cool, right? And I love love the yummy tastes and spirit. Like, how do they how do they incorporate that?

Roy Osing: 1:12:19

That's, that's as opposed to yummy taste and swallow? You see? That's the juxtapose because there is some yummy turns out that are worth pursuing. So the whole idea here is again, and by the way, the use of yummy taste and spirit is a classic example of how I use language to get people ask the question, what is that all about? And it allows me to give them a congregate into a conversation. Nobody talks like that. In fact, the only people I hear from is how, oh, that's Oh, spit. And when I say swallow, I get a completely different set of narratives come about anyway.

Carissa Andrews: 1:12:52

I've got plenty of romance authors. They're like that it's great. It's fine.

Roy Osing: 1:12:59

Oh, no, I didn't mean to go there. I'm so what yummy does. It's kind of my word of saying, as soon as you have your strategy all put together, and you know what your context is, you know what your only statement is, you know, what your who group is, you know, what they crave. As soon as you put that to bed, and you start implementing actions to see it, to breathe life into it, something happens, something comes over the transom, right, another customer comes out you and so forth. And they're asking you to consume resources for them. Okay, it's been my experience that a lot of times they represent a non strategic influence, and I ended up calling that yummy. You know what yummy is right? It tastes so good, it looks so good. Let's chase it and taste it and see what it tastes like hence the you're either gonna swallow it or spit it out. So the yummy is a dysfunctional activities that force you off to strategy. Okay, and we need to learn to first of all understand what it is. And we can do that if we have a context right within which to to evaluate the incoming. And if it's not on strategy, we spit it out, we just get rid of it. Because all it does it consume cycles, and work that takes you away from your basic strategy. On the other hand, there can be stuff coming in that actually is relevant and that's what I say taste it and swallow it, keep it right and integrated into the kinds of activities you do. Everybody is confronted with yummy whether you're an individual author, whether you're a publication house, a small business or large corporation, there are always things that hit you unexpectedly that are intended to take you off your game. You need kind of like a filter. And think about this yummy taste and spit as a filter for discarding the things that are relevant to your strategy. And it requires a lot of discipline by the way to actually actually do this because some of this yummy as I say, it's like Chocolate cake. You know, you just want to eat it and eat it and eat it. And I've had several clients that have gone out of business, because of the fact that they chased yummy. I mean, there's one client had this technology that was incredible in terms of it was a piece of security technology, wireless. And he was developing it for that application. And soon as he started producing it In came a whole bunch of other businesses and said, Hey, this is a cool technology. Why don't you apply it in my industry? Why don't you apply it in mind. So instead of sticking to a strategy, start chasing all these other industry groups, right. And as a result, because he had limited resources, right, he got spread too thin, and eventually ran out of business because he consumed all his resources. Chaisson yummy, and it was actually that example, not only think about it, that actually, I think provoked me into thinking about part of the planning implementation process this way, I didn't tag it yummy until later on, but it just seemed to fit. So if for everybody out there, we all have it, we're all faced with it. Do do you have the courage to taste it? And spit it out? That's what the Army is all about.

Carissa Andrews: 1:16:13

Gotcha. So kinda like you can try it, but doesn't have to keep you like splitting your focus and doing all sorts of things. Is that what I'm getting at?

Roy Osing: 1:16:22

Well, you can taste it, I don't want you to. So when I when I say you can take a look at it. No, you're gonna take two or three weeks to assess it. No, take a taste, make a call and just get on with it. Okay. And the first call should be if you have to know your strategy really well, okay. You have to know what the implications are. So when the when when a potential the only comes out? You You should be able to say, Huh, no, if you even say, No, spit it out. If you go your eyes wide and go, Whoa, okay, then maybe the other thing I will say is, give yourself a stopwatch. Okay to evaluate this, okay, either dismiss it right off and look at what's the worst that can happen. The worst that can happen is later on two years from now you're presented with the same yummy, and you actually recognize the benefits. Okay, your last two years?

Carissa Andrews: 1:17:14

Sure.

Roy Osing: 1:17:14

How would you have known two years ago that it was going to have that potential? So kind to yourself?

Carissa Andrews: 1:17:20

I liked the way you describe it, too. And I've heard it described a little bit differently. One of my other friends calls it like if it's not a Hell, yes. It's a hell no. So like, when you have different ideas coming at you different things that you're trying to think about. Maybe it's switching to a new genre or something along those lines. Like it's, if you're if you've got that hell yes, then you know, try it, give it a whirl. But if it's even if it's just like, I'm not quite sure that that's a hell no.

Roy Osing: 1:17:44

Yeah, andthe only that's a really good filter. I think it will work. The only thing I would say with even with a hell yes. Is if you decide to chase the hell yes. You have an obligation to go back and revisit your strategy, because you cannot leave the strategy the way it is, and pursue a hell yes. Without going back and integrating and giving it Yang in the context that you have. That will be the only thing I would say, Well, sure.

Carissa Andrews: 1:18:07

Because for myself, I'm an urban fantasy, paranormal fantasy author. But I've recently added rom com. And so it's like, I have to have different clues to be able to do to send my romcoms to then my urban fantasy. So understanding how those things integrate and incorporate into who I am. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yep. Cool. I like that a lot. Well, Ryan, thank you so much, where can my audience go to find out more about your books about who you are, like if they wanted to get in touch with you to be able to, you know, have a discussion, where do they go?

Roy Osing: 1:18:40

Thank you very much for having me on. By the way, I've really really enjoyed it. But there's a few resources I just want to have a website bedifferentorbedead.com I actually, yeah, surprise, implemented in 2009 When I started the writing journey that I'm on, it's got resources it's I blog weekly so the blog resources there and it's got current content just like having conversations like this I knew I learn new stuff about my my content every time I hold it, just different avenues and sort of things. The mentions expose themselves to me so it's current I try and do a weekly, others information on my seven books with my latest which is Be Different Or Be Dead, The Audacious Unheard of Ways I Took a Start-up to a Billion in Sales informations on there on that as well. I actually have a podcast, yes, called Audacious Moves to a Billion. I do a lot of guessing as well and I enjoy it so much. And lastly, my email address is Roy.Osing@gmail.com and I'm really happy, okay to have a conversation with anybody on this stuff. So you said earlier, you're going to create your only statement. So we need to have a conversation and I am happy to help. Okay, thanks, right more than happy to help. Awesome.

Carissa Andrews: 1:19:59

Well, thank you Thank you so much for being here, man, such an awesome guest. I know my audience is going to be blown away when they hear this. So thank you.

Roy Osing: 1:20:06

You're so kind Thank you. I'm honored to actually been asked to speak with your audience because like, I know everybody's time is precious. And to be allowed to do this makes my day so so thank you.

Carissa Andrews: 1:20:18

Well, there you have it, my friends, Roy has just lit a fire under my butt. I'm not kidding. There's been so much going on this year when it comes to Author Revolution and me and my inner work trying to figure out where I stand, what I'm standing for, what I want Author Revolution to do what I want it to be as I go forward, like when I started author revolution, it's been five years, guys, five years today, when this podcast episode airs. And I didn't know what I was getting at, I didn't know what I was trying to accomplish. I just knew I needed to teach something. And I knew that my audience, my people were authors at that point in time. And now over the years, as I continue to develop things, as I continue to grow, I'm really saying that my message is a lot bigger and broader than just in the authorship right. And so while I haven't made any direct decisions to pivot yet, I am in the process of actually pivoting my business. And so not just, I'm not dropping Author Revolution by any means. But I'm pivoting the way I want to show up in the world, the people I want to talk to I'm elevating, who I'm trying to call in to author revolution, and I'm realizing that those people are not just indie authors, right? There's a lot of people who could benefit from the things that I'm teaching. And so I'm going to be in, you'll probably start seeing some rebranding going on, you'll start seeing some stuff coming out, that's going to look a little bit different. And it's not just because of Roy's information, but a lot of it actually inspired some real deep, interesting information. So I'm going to give you like a little tiny taste of what this has done for me. Now one of the things I'm looking at rebranding is my YouTube channel, because in the past, when I first started it, it was not really it was kind of an off afterthought, I'm not gonna lie like it was okay, it's another one of those platforms I know I should be posting on. So I'm gonna sync up this thing to that thing and just kind of let it go on, like automation and do its own thing. But the more I'm thinking about my audience, and the more I'm thinking about who I'm trying to call and the more I want to be deliberate with my YouTube channel. And so one of the things that I'm going to be doing is transitioning it from being like my personal YouTube channel, where it's like Carissa Andrews, and then I put a dump in just like, all the other revolution things, and I'm dumping in like, audiobooks and things like that, they're still gonna be there, it'll have its own like little playlist, but the rebrand is coming. And I'm going to give you a little taste with my only statement for my YouTube channel. Okay, so the new YouTube channel name is going to be Write Your Reality. Now, for those of you who know, my book that's coming out later this year is going to be called Write Your Reality. It's my next nonfiction title. It's the one that's going to be including manifestation, quantum manifestation, all the things, it's going to be amazing. I'm going to do a Kickstarter later this year with it. But the platform itself, the the idea behind what I want to do with YouTube channel and how I'm going to lead it into a revolution comes down to Write Your Reality, because I love teaching manifestation. I love teaching quantum manifestation. I love mindset work, I love all the things. And that's where I want to focus for the most part going forward. I mean, I like AI and I like all the other things and they'll still be including those in the discussions. It just won't be the bulk of the discussions. Right. So right, your reality, this is my only statement now. Write Your Reality with Carissa Andrews is the only platform fiercely dedicated to empowering female entrepreneurs and authors, including passionate fiction writers to craft their books and manifest their dreams into reality. Our dynamic blend of manifestation magic, mindset mastery and practical step by step writing and publishing guides delivers groundbreaking guidance, innovative strategies, and an unshakable community of support designed for ambitious women ready to break barriers and blaze new trails in both their personal and professional lives. Our approach uses cutting edge quantum physics and insights with actionable writing techniques with Write Your Reality. female entrepreneurs and authors don't just achieve authority, they ignite transformation, reshaping their destinies and revolutionising the world of publishing. Now, you might notice some language in that I'm talking about female entrepreneurs and authors. Guys, I love you too. Don't worry, you can still listen to what I'm teaching what I'm doing all the things. But I've realized over the years that the bulk of my audience is female. And it's not just email because of the manifestation stuff, like even the other things that I'm teaching. The majority of the people who have come and found me that resonate with me are women. And so I'm going to lean into that rather Then edge away from it, as I open up to female entrepreneurs, and now one of the things that I'm gonna be adding to author revolutions, repertoire, or whatever you might have, is going to be more nonfiction work helping entrepreneurs to be able to learn or trust or create or publish their own books. So I want to start bringing them into my world. And then obviously, they can go on to some of the courses and things that I already have created. So that I can teach them how to publish, how to do audiobooks, how to manifest money through their books, whatever it might be, I just feel really called to open up my offerings open up who I am, open up the field of possibilities, so to speak, quantum physics wise, and just allow myself to take that step a little bit more boldly into a broader spectrum. And so I'm going to be even looking at speaking at more entrepreneur based conferences, I'm going to be doing a lot of things in the coming months, years, whatever, that's going to branch me out of just indie authorship as much as I love indie authors by so so do I just have this like deep, profound calling that I meant to do more? And so there you go, that's your first you've you hear it here first, no one else knows about this. I haven't told anyone else that the rebrand is coming for the YouTube channel yet. So if you start seeing some stuff for right, your reality, and you're going, what the heck is this? Who the heck is this? What's happening right now? You're welcome. That's what it is. Now, other revolutions gonna stay the same. Like, I'm not changing the branding on that I'm not doing anything in terms of trying to redefine what the revolution is, it's gonna just be its own thing. I might eventually rebrand like covers and images so that there's more of a consistent theme. But as of right now, this is what it is, right? I just feel really called to, to do more to be to be bolder, somehow to be more out there. Not just out there, like, Louis, she's into Wu, and she's into AI, whatever. But like, just, you know, to be more out there. And I really, I love the idea of being, you know, being different or being dead. And Roy's talk about all of this just lit a fire under my butt and made me realize, I want to stand out in a marketplace that is a little bit different. I want to be different because I feel I am different, in a good way. At any rate. If you enjoyed this podcast interview, make sure you head over to authorrevolution.org/241. You can get the transcript, all of the links to Roy's information, all the stuff. And don't forget, there's a lot of stuff going on this summer. I know summer is a busy time. And so maybe it's difficult to be able to sign up for courses or to get in a master classes or even like our summer story awards, right. So there are three things going on right now. I just launched OwnVoice audiobooks. And that also includes the AI VoiceCraft, which is an add on if you want to also learn how to do AI narration with 11 Labs. That's an option it just launched on Monday. It's still open, you can still join us. It's not a closed thing. It's an evergreen course. So check that out. It will be in the show notes as well. Obviously, there's a new masterclass, it's going to be coming up in July. So on July 19, at 1pm, we're going to have a masterclass it's going to be another Consult the Oracle, this particular one though, is going to be consult the oracle, and we're going to go over how to identify core wounds, like using Chat GPT, could you not on identifying core wounds and releasing them? Of course, we'll be talking about what core wounds are, why it's important to go in and heal them and let them go, or at least identify them so that you can see how it could be playing out in your life and how you would ultimately get yourself stuck. Yeah. So that is coming up. It's coming up on the 19th. Again, the link will be in the show notes. But then also, the short story awards, Hits Different right Hits Different Short Story Awards, we are kicking this thing off, it's already the first month it's done, right. So if you want to get in included in or get involved with a short story awards, that's totally different from anything you've ever seen before, you're gonna want to check this thing out, hits different is all about spending some time meditating, before you start writing, like you go into meditation with the intention of getting a really cool story idea for your short story. And the reason this is so important, the reason I'm doing this is because I want you to get a taste for what it's like to meditate daily. I want you to see how powerful it is. I want you to try it for yourself and start feeling the revelations when you start getting some cool insights. And some of them might not even be your story idea right away. You might get insights on other things like Oh, where did I put that one thing that I've been looking for? Or, oh, I should do this thing for my kid or oh, this is how I could include something cool into my Facebook ads. You don't know what's going to come through in meditation. That's the fun part of it. Kids different is all about learning to tap into that, and then trusting when the information lands. So the short story awards do come with award prizes. They come with certificates. I want you to enjoy this process and to see just how transformational it is so powerful. And if you listen to last week's podcast episode, you already know that right because I talked about like, what it's looked like five months later, since I started my daily meditation routine. So I want you to get involved in that. It will also be in the show notes. Of course, if you ever get lost if you're ever wondering where the heck things are, I do have a courses and memberships landing page. So if you go over to author revolution, just by itself, you can click over to courses, and it's going to give you like all the information, we've got memberships guides, we've got master classes listed in there, we have all the courses, they link out to their prospective sales pages. So if you want more in depth information on what that course is, you can go ahead and find more information on what that course is. So just dig around, see what's resonating with you. I've made it really easy to be able to find kind of the information you're looking for with with a click of the button at the very top of the page because I know, I know there's a lot guys, I can't help it. I love teaching. So there's a lot to choose from. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me Carissa at author revolution.org. I love hearing from my listeners. And of course, if you liked this podcast episode, if you like the podcast in general, number one, please please please review it, review it on your favorite podcast platform because your insights and discussions about how this podcast has touched your life is really powerful for others who are looking and listening to other podcasts like this, right. And number two, if you liked this podcast episode, share it with a friend. Let them know that it exists. Because I'm all about elevating. I'm about visibility this year I'm about doing new things and asking for help. So I'm asking you now share this podcast share the podcast episodes that resonated the most with you to your friends, and let's revolutionize the world of publishing together. Okay, well, you have your mission, go forth and start your Author revolution.