From Stage Fright to Spotlight with Bret Ridgway

Ever wondered how to transform your public speaking skills and boost your author career simultaneously? In this thrilling episode of the Author Revolution Podcast, I sit down with Bret Ridgway, co-founder of Speaker Fulfillment Services, to uncover his fascinating journey from creating a niche portal website in 1995 to becoming an influential speaker. You'll gain invaluable tips on conquering stage fright and crafting compelling speeches that captivate audiences, essential skills for every author looking to enhance their career.

Bret dives deep into the principles from his bestseller "Mistakes Authors Make," emphasizing the need for consumability in writing. We cover the common pitfalls that can disengage readers, such as lengthy chapters, and offer practical strategies to keep your audience hooked. Learn how breaking extensive content into multiple books can not only enhance reader experience but also maximize your earning potential. Whether you're a fiction or nonfiction author, this episode is packed with actionable advice on structuring your work for better audience engagement.

Marketing is paramount for authors, and this episode shines a spotlight on effective strategies to ensure your book doesn't just sit on a shelf. Bret shares insights on building an email list, securing a domain name, and consistently engaging with your audience across platforms like LinkedIn and TikTok. We also discuss the benefits and challenges of selling on Amazon versus personal websites, offering real-life examples and strategies to stand out in a crowded marketplace. Discover how to embrace discomfort and take your author career to new heights. Tune in and get ready to revolutionize your approach to speaking and marketing!

Tired of pretending another mindset trick will finally unlock your author career? Write Your Reality is your no-BS, manifestation-meets-energy-regulation guide for neurodivergent writers ready to ditch burnout and write their next level.

Kickstarter is live April 14–May 11 — or, depending when you’re listening, already on fire.
✨ Get in here: https://authorrevolution.org/kickstarter

Indie publishing wasn’t built for neurodivergent minds—so let’s change that. Inside Author Revolution on Substack, I share exclusive insights on writing, publishing, and manifestation for ND authors. Plus, explore my neurospicy romcoms & urban fantasy worlds. Want to go deeper? Get access to Manifest Differently: The Deep End, my private podcast. Follow now: 👉 authorrevolution.org/substack

Chapters

• 0:47 Podcast Interview With Brett Ridgeway
• 8:01 Effective Book Writing Strategies
• 14:21 Maximizing Impact Through Strategic Speaking
• 22:52 Connecting With Audience for Effective Speaking
• 25:57 Marketing Strategies for Authors
• 38:13 Marketing Strategies for Authors on Amazon
• 50:55 Embracing Uncomfortability for Success
• 55:29 Author Revolution Podcast Wrap-Up

Transcript

Carissa Andrews: 0:47

Welcome to the Author Revolution podcast, where change is not just embraced, it's celebrated. I'm Carissa Andrews, international bestselling author, indie author coach and your navigator through the ever-evolving landscape of authorship. Are you ready to harness the power of your mind and the latest innovations in technology for your writing journey? If you're passionate about manifesting your dreams and pioneering new writing frontiers, then you're in the perfect place. Here we merge the mystical woo of writing with the exciting advancements of the modern world. We dive into the realms of mindset, manifestation and the transformative magic that occurs when you believe in the impossible. We also venture into the world of futuristic technologies and strategies, preparing you for the next chapter in your author career. Every week, we explore new ways to revolutionize your writing and publishing experience, from AI to breakthrough thinking. This podcast is your gateway to a world where creativity meets innovation. Whether you're penning your first novel or expanding your literary empire, whether you're a devotee of the pen or a digital storyteller, this podcast is where your author revolution gains momentum. So join me in this journey to continue growth and transformation. It's time to redefine what it means to be an author in today's dynamic world. This is the Author Revolution Podcast, and your author revolution starts now.

Carissa Andrews: 2:17

Hi guys, welcome to another episode of the Author Revolution Podcast. I am so happy to say that I am feeling way, way better than I was last week. It was such a bummer, literally to be sick, like on my birthday and on my son's birthday, like it was just not a good, not a good time. But here I am, I am recording this intro on the 9-9 portal and feeling actually much better, feeling good, feeling like I have some clarity in my business, in my life, in my head again, clarity in my business, in my life, in my head again, like all the things, and so I'm just feeling much, much better. I'm in the process of adding in some new strategies, some new things that I'm implementing, some very cool new things that might be coming for authors down the pike. They might involve some new ways to market your books, and I am going to be teaching that very, very soon. Woo ha ha ha. Very intriguing information, but I can't tell you about it just yet. I'm in the process of testing it out. I have a couple of other authors who are going to be testing it out alongside me and we're going to see what happens. So we're in playful experimentation mode at the moment, but just know, and stay tuned, that something cool is coming.

Carissa Andrews: 3:31

Okay, speaking of new and cool, if you are a nonfiction author, you're going to want to listen up, because today's podcast episode is really going to help you to bring your nonfiction books to the next level. Now, I don't usually do a whole lot of podcast interviews or episodes that are geared more toward the nonfiction author, but this is definitely one of them. I'm going to be speaking with my special guest, brett Ridgeway, and he's going to be talking about all things. Speaking yeah, speaking it's really kind of cool and why it's so important for us to get on the stage and get over our stage fright and be able to have, you know, a speech in our back pocket if need be. There's some invaluable tips here, and, for those of you who are just fiction authors, you're going to want to listen up to, because there will be opportunities for you to be able to share your wisdom as well.

Carissa Andrews: 4:21

I mean, author Nation is coming up, guys, and even if you don't teach other authors the way like I do here with Author Revolution, you have invaluable insights based off of what you're learning, based off of how you're implementing strategies for your author career, and you just never know when you might want to share that information with others. So this podcast episode interview is going to really highlight what it means to be a speaker how to go about, you know, getting your head wrapped around it, making sure you have more information about the audience of which you're going to be speaking to all the goodies. So, without further ado, let's get into it. Well, hi, brett, it's great to have you on the Author Revolution podcast. Before we get started, do you want to tell my audience a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Bret Ridgway: 5:09

Sure, yes, and I'm excited to be with you all here today. So a couple of things led to where I'm at today and we got to go back to 1995, chris, I actually put up the first portal website in the plant engineering and maintenance industry 30 years ago, wow and so I was selling in those days books and videotapes aimed at that particular niche. And then about the same time frame, I had a joint venture with a gentleman who called me up and asked me if I would handle the back sales table at his first internet marketing conference in 1999. Now I hadn't been to Las Vegas before, so it sounded good to me. So I said shoot. And so that led to kind of a side business where I would provide the crew and the merchant account that would process all the sales at a conference.

Bret Ridgway: 5:56

And when some of those speakers that I got to know at those conferences found out I was doing product fulfillment for my own websites, they cornered me and asked me if I would handle product fulfillment for them. And I've been thinking about it for a while because it was a natural outgrowth of all the people I knew in the industry. And so with another guy we founded a company called Speaker Fulfillment Services back in 2003. And we handled product fulfillment for a lot of authors, speakers and information marketers for the last 20 plus years, and so the events that I was involved in Marissa were primarily internet and information marketing events and a lot of events specifically related to book marketing Author 101, university AuthorU, etc. And exhibited and spoke at many of those conferences and that is kind of the path that led us to where we're at today.

Carissa Andrews: 6:46

That is so cool. Well, first of all, vegas. I mean, what a great place to go. My favorite place to go for author conferences is in Vegas as well, so that's a great place and it kicks everything off. How cool is that? Okay, so let's talk about your own, because you're you're obviously your journey into this whole thing with speaking and publishing is very rich. Can you explain a little bit about how you first got drawn to helping specifically speakers and authors?

Bret Ridgway: 7:13

You know, because the industry that I was involved in was primarily information marketers and that's every subject under the sun, chris. I mean we had clients that had to make money in forex, had to make money in real estate, had to improve your life I mean, make a cake, you name it. And so because of the all the conferences I attended over the years, I got to hear probably gosh, two thousand different speakers in person. Okay, and I saw what they did well and what many of them failed miserably at, and got to know a lot of the publishers and the book agents and all that very well. And so I was kind of had a unique behind the scenes perspective of both the book publishing and the speaking industries and I saw the mistakes that authors are making and a lot of the speakers are making.

Bret Ridgway: 8:01

And it's just like all right, brett, it's time to share what you've learned along the way with others, and I'm actually a fairly introverted person, and so for the first I don't know 10 years, I was happy to be the behind the scenes guy, you know, the back of the room guy or whatever. But eventually I said, all right, brett, you need to get, oh, you need to overcome this and get up in front of the room and share some of what you've learned along the way also. So I did start speaking at events oh gosh, maybe 10 years ago now. So I speak at a lot of summits and conferences and podcasts et cetera. So you know it was getting out of my own way, essentially, carissa.

Carissa Andrews: 8:39

Right and putting to use all the stuff that you've learned. I mean, obviously you've penned a number one bestseller called Literally Mistakes Authors Make, so what inspired you to write that book? I mean, I think it probably stems from what you just said, but could you share a thing or two of the common missteps that authors and speakers, by the sounds of it, are frequently making?

Bret Ridgway: 8:56

Well, that's an interesting story because that particular book Mistakes Authors Make, which this one right here. You'll notice two co-authors on the bottom. Now, he wrote the book but for many reasons we decided we needed to have co-authors on it because we decided we would launch that book and try to make it a number one bestseller at a live event. So we were either going to fail miserably and fall flat on our face or we were going to succeed, and so we spoke at that event and we asked the audience to help go buy a copy of the book that day on Amazon. Because of all the relationships I had in the industry, I reached out to colleagues ahead of time and they were happy to spread the word or whatever. It was a make or break moment or whatever. We did make it, or whatever. Unfortunately, we were able to drive it to number one, but it was like this is going to be egg on her face or we're going to look like heroes.

Carissa Andrews: 9:52

I love that. So what are some of the mistakes that authors are making? Are they? Is it pretty, pretty consistent? I'm assuming it's pretty consistent.

Bret Ridgway: 10:01

Well, I mean, I come from the nonfiction book world versus the fiction book world, but certainly some of what I'm going to talk about will apply to fiction authors as well. But you think about you go to a bookstore, chris, and you like to browse the books, I assume, since you're in the whole author world, or whatever I like to do the same and if I go into the bookstore I typically go to the marketing book section.

Bret Ridgway: 10:25

but if I pick up a book and look at that first chapter and I'm paging through it and it's like you know, 20 pages, 25 pages, like oh my god, this looks like too much work to even get through one chapter. Because if you're like a lot of people, you have to maybe read a little bit before you go to sleep, and so you know, if it's five or seven pages, great, you know, I can knock off another chapter before I call it a night or whatever. But if it's 20 or 25 or 30 pages in the chapter, it's like too much work. So the biggest mistake I'm not going to say the biggest, a big mistake I see a lot of the authors make is they don't think about the consumption or the consumability of their book. And if you think about the fiction book world, who's the master of the short chapter? James Patterson, I mean the chapters are two or three pages. It's like, well, I can read another chapter, I can read another chapter. Next thing, you know you've read that, learn their 40 or 50 or 100 pages and finish the book because he makes it very consumable for you.

Bret Ridgway: 11:19

So if you're writing a book, think about how you're going to keep those chapters to a minimal length. That makes sense so that people are more likely to consume your book. That makes sense, so that people are more likely to consume your book. Don't make it hard for them to want to get through the content that you have to share. I mean, you can be a great writer, but if you make it too hard for them, then they're not going to get through it and you're not going to get the results you want, whether it's sending them to another product that you have in a coaching program, or whether it's getting them excited about the next book in your series or whatever it may be, them excited about the next book in your series or whatever it may be. So consumability is certainly something I think most authors don't give a thought to whatsoever.

Carissa Andrews: 11:56

I think that's so smart. I mean, when I teach authors how to plan out their series because I have a couple of courses where we do that we're planning series out I typically will try to convince them that, like, keep them short, 2,000, 3,000 words is kind of a sweet spot. Anything beyond that you're kind of pushing it a little bit and it does. It makes a difference because our attention spans are so much shorter now.

Bret Ridgway: 12:19

And along the same lines. Even though you may know tons about a particular subject, you're probably not going to be best served by telling everything you know in a book. Right, we don't want people to don't want word pieces. These days, they want something that maybe 100, 125, 150 pages at the most. So you're better off breaking it into multiple books rather than writing a 300 page book. Yeah, in my opinion.

Carissa Andrews: 12:45

I agree, I agree, and it maximizes the author's potential as well, like their earning potential, because if you're going to put it all in one book, now you've only got the one. Or if you've got multiple, you've got a series and you've got more obviously, more to say and it's more deliverable and there's more like read through and capability of earning. So it just makes makes a lot of sense, Okay.

Carissa Andrews: 13:05

So in your upcoming book, you discussed the idea of having a back pocket speech, so this is really intriguing. Could you tell us a little bit about the book and then explain what this back pocket speech means? I mean, I kind of think I get it, but I would like to hear your words on it and why it's really crucial deliver when they're going to be in front of a live crowd.

Bret Ridgway: 13:33

Now they may tweak that speech based on the audience, you know, but they have basically a core speech that they're going to deliver. Well, I was at an event several years ago, carissa, and suddenly an ambulance pulled up in front of the hotel and they loaded somebody on the gurney and carted them away to the hospital and, as it turned out, that person was scheduled to be the next speaker on the agenda at that conference. Oh no, I could see the event promoter over on the side saying, oh my God, what am I going to do? I mean, I can't do a song and dance for 90 minutes or whatever. How am I going to deliver to my audience the promises that we made? And that's where you as a speaker can be the knight in shining armor for that event promoter, but saying, hey, I have another talk on subject y, which relates to the conference still, obviously, and so you can step in and fill that gap for them. So that's what I call the back pocket speech. Now, you may never need it, but the fact that an opportunity comes up to speak and obviously the more face time you can get with the audience, the better it is for you, particularly if you're going to be selling from the platform and so have a second speech available at a moment's notice that you can pull up and deliver to an audience whenever you need.

Bret Ridgway: 14:40

I mean face it. People don't show up for summits sometime online. People don't show up at live events. People get sick Like is that a situation? I mean, be the one who's prepared to step in there. The value of getting more face time with the audience cannot be underestimated. It's going to really help you build that know like and trust factor and, particularly if you're going to be selling from the platform later on, it's going to help you out immensely. And then when that event promoter is scheduled to do another event, well, who are they going to think of? Well, they're going to think kindly of you, because you're the one that stepped in and helped them out.

Carissa Andrews: 15:13

So that makes so much sense. Yeah, and it builds that community aspect, like you were just talking about, the no, like trust factor of being able to kind of step in and just be able to. You know, in their minds probably wing it, but in your mind you're like, well, of course I can say this this is no big deal. That's very smart. What is the new book called?

Bret Ridgway: 15:31

Well, this book is called how to Build a Profitable Speaking Business, so it's basically a bunch of stories of things I've seen along the way that you would shake your head at in terms of mistakes that speakers have made and kind of outlines the things that they need to put into place in order to, if they want to do speaking as a business, to succeed at it. What are some of those things that?

Carissa Andrews: 15:54

makes so much sense. I like that a lot. That's really cool. And now when it comes to fiction authors because a lot of my audience is fiction there's a good portion of them that are nonfiction as well. Do you see that also working for fiction authors to be able to describe things too, if they have a back pocket speech, or even speech speak in general? Like some, some of these fiction authors don't even consider it being an option, but I think that's personally. I think it taps into another group of people that could become your audience.

Bret Ridgway: 16:22

There can. I guess the question is you know who is your target audience and what can you deliver in a speech that brings value to that audience. Maybe it's something that you've overcome to get that book written, or whatever may be. But, you know, can you make an inspiration or something that they're going to latch on to and then want to say, well, I like this person, I want to, you know, read what they have have written or what they're going to be coming out with. And so, yeah, I think anybody should be a speaker, whether you're going to be a keynote speaker or a platform selling speaker, whether you just want to use it for business building purposes. But you know, come up with a topic or topics that you can speak on and then, as best you can, find the audiences that are appropriate for that particular message and then put yourself out there. I mean, the more people that you can get in front of, the better off, and certainly speaking one to many is preferable to speaking one to one. So, right, right.

Carissa Andrews: 17:18

Do you have any advice and you mentioned that you are more introverted than extroverted Do you have any advice for those who are more introverted themselves to get over any kind of fear of speaking, Like I was? I was just speaking to someone yesterday about how the idea or the notion of getting up and speaking in front of people is like worse than death to some people. How do you get, how do you get over that?

Bret Ridgway: 17:37

Well, you know, there's no easy answer to that question. I mean, you just have to do it, and certainly the you need to know your subject inside out, and the more comfortable you are with your subject then the more easy it's going to be for you to go out and speak on that subject. And you should start small, you know, start with local groups or whatever small groups, get comfortable. I think you should definitely get involved in online networking events and there's a lot of them for speakers and authors and all that and get out there, just get used to talking to people and getting more comfortable with that whole scenario and then build it up. I mean, it didn't happen overnight for most people and you just have to get. The more you do it, certainly the easier it gets, like anything in life, and so you just have to bite the bullet and get out there and put yourself forward.

Bret Ridgway: 18:24

Now remember the audience. They're really. They want you to succeed. They're not rooting for you to make a fool of yourself or anything like that. They want you to succeed. So what can you do to bring value to them? And if you do that, you'll get better and better as time goes by.

Carissa Andrews: 18:38

I so agree with that. When I first started speaking, I didn't even realize I was like at the time I thought I was speaking to my readers, but I started when facebook uh first announced like the the lives, and so that was me kind of stepping into the foray, into in 2017, I want to say, of trying to figure out like my messages and what I'm trying to say and what I thought was important, and at the time I thought it was to my readers, but it wasn't, it was to other authors, and then it expanded eventually into what is now Author Revolution. But yeah, it's like you have to kind of tiptoe somewhere and sometimes it means even having that wall between the two of you where you're speaking to your phone and not to the audience first, and then eventually you're maybe doing a podcast and then you go onto the stage. You can do it in steps and eventually you get a lot better at it.

Bret Ridgway: 19:21

You have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Carissa Andrews: 19:23

Yeah, yes, exactly Okay. So you emphasize the importance of not just getting on stages, but getting on the right ones, obviously. Why is this distinction so vital to authors or to speakers in general, aiming to maximize their impact?

Bret Ridgway: 19:38

Well, if you have an author, that you have a, let's say, a nonfiction book on relationships, probably your target audience is going to be primarily women or whatever. So if you go into an event that's 95% men, then it's probably not the right audience for you. So the impact that you want to have is not going to be there, and it doesn't matter whether you're a keynote speaker or just doing it as a business building thing or whether you're selling from the platform. It's so important that you do your homework in advance of an event to determine if that audience is the proper audience for you. I mean, I was at an event several years ago, Carissa, where it was a multi-speaker event in the internet marketing space and, for whatever reason, the event promoter was all about getting the big names on a stage. Well, as it turned out, there were three speakers, all on the subject of copywriting, and while copywriting is a very important subject, by the time they got to the third speaker on the same subject, who was selling some type of package on copywriting resources, the audience was like oh yeah, you know, been there, heard that, totally tuned out, and that speaker's chance of selling anything at that event was like the Zippo Sure, Because you can't remember, in the platform selling world, people are paying their own way to go to these events and they're going to make their money on what they sell from the stage and if they sell nothing, they just, you know, lost $1,000 or $2,000 to go speak at an event. So if the speaker had done his homework in advance part of that homework is who is on this platform and what are they speaking about and then maybe he could have pulled out his back pocket speech that would have been still appropriate for the crowd and then come up with a different offer or whatever. So you've got to do your homework Now. Even if you're not selling for the platform, that still applies because you want to have as positive of impact as possible with the audience. You want them to resonate with their message or whatever.

Bret Ridgway: 21:34

Well, if you don't know the demographics of that audience, you know what is it Men, is it women? What's the age group? What's the education level? Have you spoken to them before? I mean, you need to talk with the people in charge of that event to find out who's going to be in the crowd so that you can hone your message as best as possible to be fit for that particular audience and you've got to be ready to adjust on the fly. I mean, if the speaker in the copy on board who didn't do his homework ahead of time had gotten to that event and seeing what the other speakers were doing, then maybe he could have, you know, pivoted or whatever, but he didn't and he suffered the consequences. So I mean, the target audience is so appropriate and it's really many speakers are so weak on doing their homework in advance of an event to figure out how they can best truly resonate with the audience that's going to be there.

Carissa Andrews: 22:28

I can definitely see that and I think your message just now probably gave my audience a little bit of heart palpitations where it's like pivot on the fly. I already don't want to be shaped for them, and there is that level of awareness that you have to have. I know for me from when I speak on stage. Oftentimes they'll give us the talk that we're going to be doing. They'll look at the spectrum of things and they're going to be like, okay, we've got enough people talking about this, so you're going to talk about that. And so we do come in with a little bit of clarity, knowing the topic of how we're going to deliver this information. But so, when that's the case, what kind of advice would you give for someone like me who's like?

Carissa Andrews: 23:17

I have a speech that's coming up in November. I know what my topic is. It's going to be a big one for authors who are in all levels of their author career. So some are going to be newbies who haven't really written a whole lot. Some are going to have some books, some are going to have a lot of books, and my talk is going to be on bringing quantum manifestation into the mix, and so we're going to be talking about manifestation to authors, but that's all I know. Know.

Carissa Andrews: 23:41

I don't know these people and like what their level of understanding is going to be. I don't like. Some people are going to know me, they're going to come in, they've heard me speak before, so I think there's going to be a level of of the audience that's going to be like. Of course, I know what she's talking about, but in that case, when you don't really know who the audience is going to be, like do you do it the day of? Do you? You do it right before? Do you pull them before you start your speech? Like, how would you do that?

Bret Ridgway: 24:03

Well, a couple of things.

Bret Ridgway: 24:04

Number one you simply want to reach out to the event promoter ahead of time and find out as much as you can about the audience from them.

Bret Ridgway: 24:10

If they've done the event before, a lot of events will have you know statistics on who the audience was at the previous events. Now I think it's critical that any speech that you develop you've got to keep it modular in nature so that you know you know you have your core things that you want to cover, but, based on the amount of time you have to speak, you can add more stories, take stories away, insert an interactive exercise, take it out, whatever to adjust to the timeframe that you have, but you know what you're facing. There is a challenge, and I think the biggest key in my opinion to be on target as much as possible in that event is get to the event early. Don't just show up hit-and-run speaker type thing. Get there early, meet the crowd, mingle, find out what their background is, find out what their stories are, and then you should be able to incorporate some of what you've learned along that free speaking time by meeting people and mingling at the event into the presentation somehow.

Carissa Andrews: 25:17

And now you're making all the introverts curl up and die again. What Mingle with people? Are you kidding me?

Bret Ridgway: 25:23

I'm sorry to be such a pain. Father, I'm sorry.

Carissa Andrews: 25:26

No, I think it's great. We all need to hear it because I think we get stuck in our comfort zones and we're like what? I have to talk to people, but I'm a writer, but I think it's so key I mean, even reason you're there is to learn from each other, to talk to people and to like get back into the connection and the flow of what's happening and the information you're going to receive from the speakers, whether you're doing the speaking or not, I think is going to be so invaluable when you have that connection. It's so much better.

Bret Ridgway: 25:57

I think it's so important to recognize and acknowledge that you're not really a writer or an author. You're a marketer of a book, or you're the marketer of your writing services, or whatever. I mean anything that you do is secondary, in a certain sense, to being a marketer of whatever that thing is. Yeah, and so you can't just hide in the closet as an author and expect that your book's going to sell.

Bret Ridgway: 26:23

Right, you've got to sell Right and it's certainly one of the things many authors are weak at is beginning that marketing process of a new book in. You know well in advance of the book. You know you can't say it's coming out June 15th, I'll start my marketing then I mean it's not going to work. You need to be building an email list ahead of time. You need to be out there being seen, building some excitement for that upcoming release and so that you have a ready list of prospects or potential buyers so that when you announce that that book is now available, they're going to go to Amazon or to the local bookstore or wherever you want to take them to buy your book.

Bret Ridgway: 26:58

So start six months a year in advance. Start building a list. You know what can you put online that would attract potential readers to want to be on your email list so that you can then notify them when the book is actually available. Maybe it's preview chapters, maybe it's character backstories that aren't going to be, you know, actual part of the book. Whatever it may be, maybe it's just an audio interview of you as an author and why you're writing the book and kind of what it's about to try to build some excitement. But start way ahead of time, so that you have potential buyers ready to go.

Carissa Andrews: 27:31

When you have a new book coming out, what is your process Like? What is the first thing that you go? Okay, I got to make sure I get this put in place.

Bret Ridgway: 27:39

The first thing I typically would, doris, is figure out, number one, what that book title is going to be, and see if I can get that book title as the domain for my book.

Bret Ridgway: 27:49

And then, you know, get a basic website up with some type of bribe, some type of lead maggot or offer to start building the list. And then, even more you know, even more polarizing important is, if you have an existing list, start emailing them and letting them know that something's coming down the pike so that when it hits they're ready to go. So I mean, you've got to nurture your list, you can't just let it go cold. And so you've got to communicate consistently, and consistency is the name of the game in any type of marketing effort, and consistency is the name of the game in any type of marketing effort. And so, if you're a nonfiction book, think about what kind of content you can share with them via email, via LinkedIn, via Facebook, whatever it may be that keeps you front and center in their minds, and so that when that release date happens, it's you know they're ready to go.

Carissa Andrews: 28:40

Right, right, that's so important. I think that's so key and I think there's even that element of the social part of it too, like you could be sharing things on TikTok or on, you know, instagram or whatever, but it's important to be going wherever that audience that you're trying to tap into is and so having that level of understanding of who you're again, who you're speaking to and who you're trying to communicate and pull into your world, it's so, again, who you're speaking to and who you're trying to communicate and pull into your world, it's so, it's okay, and I love that idea of, like getting the domain name of your book title. That's that's cool. I like that a lot. I've done that in the past with um certain series where I'll have it as the series title, and that works really well as you're getting ready to launch, you know, the first book of the series or the whatever.

Bret Ridgway: 29:19

So now I still think you should have an author website, but then you know individual sites that are available and then make sure that you cross pollinate your world as much as possible, and here's what I mean. So I have my own podcast called spotlight on speaking, which I interview public speakers about their speaking journey, tips for success and mistakes to avoid, and I would certainly invite you to be my guest on my podcast, carissa I would love that yeah so, but I also have a linkedin newsletter and it's a co-related newsletter, also called spotlight on speaking.

Bret Ridgway: 29:54

So I'm using the same brand name essentially, and one of the things that I do in my newsletter is, when I put out an issue, the first lead story is typically. One of the things that I do in my newsletter is, when I put out an issue, the first lead story is typically one of my podcast interviews, and it's one that I've done a few months ago, so I'm refeaturing the person that was interviewed before and so they're getting a second release date essentially. So I'm leveraging those existing assets and reusing them in a different manner to bring more awareness to you know the podcast that's so smart.

Carissa Andrews: 30:27

I like that. That's a neat way to be able to reuse the content that like, like you said, that you already have in order to get bring a new life and kind of I don't know create kind of a cycle of of awareness back to the podcast and even that individual, yeah, if you're a.

Bret Ridgway: 30:41

If you're a, not, yeah. If you're a. If you're a non, you could. Fiction authors could do it, but particularly if you're a nonfiction author, I would strongly encourage you to look at doing a LinkedIn newsletter. The great value is that number one LinkedIn essentially markets it for you. I mean, I picked up all that my subscribers by them just spreading the word, so to speak. And the newsletter that I do, honestly, is what I call a collated newsletter. Chris, I don't write any of the articles myself. So it's like you know. I hook up with a service called Feedspot. It sends me lists of articles daily that are related to my subject. I pick four or five. It takes me 30 minutes to put a newsletter together and then spread the word or whatever. So you don't have to do all the writing yourself to do a newsletter, so you can build a good subscriber list on LinkedIn. That is another asset that you can leverage at the appropriate time and you don't have to do much work at all. Honestly, that's so cool.

Carissa Andrews: 31:39

I never thought to do newsletters on LinkedIn. I'm definitely not on linkedin as much as I could be because most of my audience is elsewhere, but or at least I perceive them to be elsewhere. But maybe they're not. I mean, maybe they're over there hanging out and talking and talking books and publishing in a completely different manner, and so that's a really cool idea to be able to.

Bret Ridgway: 31:58

There's a ton ton of LinkedIn groups related to authors.

Carissa Andrews: 32:02

Oh good, yeah, I've made a couple of groups, but I can't say I've ever really like myself actively put in there. But it reminds me of a marketing message that I once heard, where it's like you don't make marketing decisions based on your consumer profile, like the way you would handle things. You try other things because sometimes there's different perceptions out there in the world. You need to try different things. So that's really smart. Oh, what a good idea. Thank you. Okay. So the debate between being a keynote speaker versus a sell from the platform speaker is definitely a hot topic. From your experience, what are the pros and cons of each approach?

Bret Ridgway: 32:34

Well, obviously you can only decide which is best for you, and I do know some people that have mastered both worlds quite well but I will tell you that typically, if your speaking is designed to be a business for you and a money generator it's not just about spreading the word about your book or whatever then you will make far more money if you master the art of selling from the platform than you will ever as a keynote speaker. Chris, I had a colleague that did a speech in the UK a few years ago and in one 90-minute presentation he generated $950,000 worth of sales.

Carissa Andrews: 33:14

Wow.

Bret Ridgway: 33:15

Now, even after splitting with the event promoter, because in the platform selling world typically it's a 50-50 split between the promoter and the speaker. I mean for 90 minutes. Yeah, he had travel costs and all that because he was in the UK, but I think he could afford to travel for his cut of $475,000.

Carissa Andrews: 33:33

Right, I think so. Yeah, oh my goodness, that's amazing. How do people get involved in that sort of thing? Let's say someone was like, oh my gosh, that sounds awesome. How, how did they get their toes into the mix of doing something like that?

Bret Ridgway: 33:46

Well, the key to anything and I think this is a person's most important business asset is relationships. You got to start being seen and getting known and contributing in a positive way whether it's online, to groups or summits, networking events, whatever it may. It's online to groups or summits, networking events, whatever may be, it's the people that know you and what's the old phrase, like you and trust you. That you know will be your biggest supporters. And so you've got to build relationships. I mean the I mentioned speaker fulfillment services at the beginning, the company we found in 2003 and we grew that company to gosh. What was our? I think that six and a half million was our highest sales year, but that was all off relationships.

Bret Ridgway: 34:26

People we met at events that referred people to us. It was all relationship marketing. There was no proactive advertising going on, and so you got to be seen. You got to contribute positively to the communities. If you have a mover or a shaker in the industry that you want to get to know, we'll start adding value to the rule Comment on their posts, like their posts, you know, provide positive content to their followers, and then, you know, eventually you'll get seen and maybe you'll be asked to speak at their event or whatever. I mean, there's a lot of networking opportunities out there and you simply got to make the time to participate in some of them. Now you can't do them all. I mean, if you're only networking, they're not doing anything else. But right, you've got to be seen, and relationships is the key that is so smart.

Carissa Andrews: 35:12

I know, back in in the beginning, when I first started um author revolution, the idea of being seen was scary, because you know, as solopreneurs and even authors kind of probably feel this way where it's like you're the one person in charge of all the things and so how do you find time then to do all the networking stuff and then all the things that are actually important in the business?

Carissa Andrews: 35:32

And there was definitely a time in the beginning where I was like there's just, there's no chance, like I would personally. I would want to respond to each and every person and it would consume my whole day and then I wouldn't get anything done and so I would push it away because it was so scary. And so I had to like tiptoe around that the idea of like what do I get? How does it get to work for me. I think that's where the podcast really began, because I'm like I want to be able to contribute, but I need to do it on my terms, at least at first. And now it's like more, like that interaction, and I think that's so smart, having that ability to connect with the people that are movers and shakers and are able to help you be seen, but you have to give of yourself first. That makes so much sense.

Bret Ridgway: 36:13

Yeah, it's gotta be a part of your regular marketing outreach is relationship building, I mean, and you gotta ensure those relationships. You've gotta truly approach it from a what can I do for them, first standpoint, and then, over time, what will come back to you? I mean, if you go in with the attitude, well, what can they do for me and I'm not going to talk to them unless they can do something for me right now, they'll see right through it and you will not achieve the success that you want.

Carissa Andrews: 36:37

Absolutely yeah, cause you come at it from a very, very different approach. When you're asking questions or talking about things, when you have that angle to things, like like the people who are you know, you sign up for Instagram and the next thing you know every Internet marketer on the planet is like hey, well, you would let me review your book and like there's no. Like hi, how are you? What kind of books you read? There's nothing. There's there's no flirting. They just want to get straight to the point. Like what?

Bret Ridgway: 37:01

So yeah, it doesn't happen. Come on, Marissa.

Carissa Andrews: 37:04

It always happens every day. I'm always like delete and I'm like I wish they knew if they just talked to me first and let me know that I'm, that they're a person that maybe I would actually do it, but very few of them do so. Fyi guys out there listening, ok, so have you, having observed the industry for over a decade, what are? Well, obviously, over a decade, you've been speaking for a decade, but what are some of the significant changes you've seen in internet marketing?

Bret Ridgway: 37:32

Well, I think the biggest thing, and let's talk about live events for a second. So in the internet marketing world, at live events, there used to be a sweet spot in terms of pricing if you were selling from the platform of $2,000. You saw some packages up to $5,000 or more, but typically the sweet spot was about $2,000. You saw some packages up to 5,000 or more, but typically the sweet spot was about 2,000. In 2008 and 2009, when the economy didn't turn down, then that suddenly dropped to 497,. 697 was the sweet spot price-wise, and so you've seen this fluctuation in terms of what the price points really worked.

Bret Ridgway: 38:14

In the initial days, I mean, you could write a course on any topic and it would sell because there wasn't much there. Now there's 85 courses on the same subject, regardless of what that subject is, and it's a lot harder to be noticed. So coming up with your own unique spin, your own unique approach, angle, backstory, whatever it may be, is critical to getting noticed on the Internet these days. And we talked about the importance of communication with your prospect, with your client list, whatever it may be.

Bret Ridgway: 39:01

I mean, I have a friend, a guy named Armin Moore, who's an internet marketer fairly well known in the industry and he does what he calls five minute marketing. That's, you know, every day you've got to find at least five minutes to do something, to work on your business rather than in your business. So what am I going to do? Whether it's send a thank you note to a guest, a host, whether it's going to be I'm going to send out an email blast, well, I'm going to do this, linkedin, post, facebook post, record a video and put on tiktok, whatever it may be. But every day you've got to dedicate something, some, some time to doing something marketing-wise. I mean, you probably heard of the author Michael Gerber in the book the E-Myth or whatever, and there's a big difference between being a good plumber and being a marketer of plumbing services, and that applies to anything.

Bret Ridgway: 39:50

We talked about it with writing. You're not an author or writer. You're a marketer of whatever the product you created with their writing is, and so consistency is so critically important. I don't know if I answered your question very well or not, chris, but that's where we're at.

Carissa Andrews: 40:05

Yeah, no, I think it did definitely, because I was asking about the changes that you've seen over time and it sounds like you know. We've seen fluctuations in the marketplace, we've seen fluctuations in the pricing, but in order to maintain the direction that they're trying to go, consistency is the biggest key right.

Bret Ridgway: 40:23

It is, and so you know I got a couple other things I would like to work in here, if we could. Sure yeah, go for it. All right. So let's talk about Amazon for authors. So the question is should you be selling your book on Amazon? And I'd like your take on that, chris, at first, then I'll throw my two cents in.

Carissa Andrews: 40:42

Oh gosh, my. I would say that my, my philosophy on Amazon has evolved over the years. Originally I would have said you know, use Amazon as your exclusivity thing just to learn and get your feet wet when it comes to becoming an author, like in the beginning, and then decide for yourself if you want to go and publish wide. There's a little, there's an element of that that I would say still exists, but now that I've been publishing for 12 plus years, I would say that I've seen a lot of ups and downs with Amazon, and so if you can having your own site, your own store, your own hub, pushing that first and still having the options of Amazon and Barnes and Noble and Kobo and wherever as external places to go Retailers that people are very familiar with and know where to find you can still go and get your stuff. But your site your like I have a Shopify store is most important.

Bret Ridgway: 41:35

I would largely agree with your perspective because if you're selling, should you be selling on Amazon?

Bret Ridgway: 41:41

In my opinion, yes, you definitely should be selling your book on Amazon, because that's the 800 pound gorilla in the book selling world and if you're not there, you're not going to lose some sales, right.

Bret Ridgway: 41:51

But if you have any kind of platform whatsoever, you're a speaker or you have a big audience out there and you drive the traffic from the speaking engagements or whatever it may be to Amazon to buy your book, you're nuts. You need to drive them to your website, as you stated, so that they can purchase from you. Number one you're going to make a lot more money per sale selling it yourself versus selling it on amazon, yes. Number two you have the ability, if you have other products or services that you can offer, to include a sell sheet or something inside your shipment to the customer, where amazon is not going to stick that into the shipment for you, right? And I mean the third thing is it's amazon customer, it's not really your customer, so you don't have the ability to market other things to them because it's Amazon's customer and they're going to be very protective of that customer.

Bret Ridgway: 42:43

So, yeah, I think you should be selling on Amazon, but if you have a platform whatsoever, send them to your site, where your store, wherever may be, versus sending them to Amazon.

Carissa Andrews: 42:54

I completely agree. I think it makes so much sense and it's definitely a mindset shift that happened over time, because it truly is Like in the beginning, when I was first publishing, people didn't understand. Well, first of all, we didn't have a lot of the ways that we can deliver eBooks and fulfill paperbacks on demand like we do now. So there was a little bit of technology disconnect that didn't make it as easy as it is like as of right now. But there's just been a big shift, I think, in mindset for indie authors. We've gone through this thing for over a decade now. We've been in this industry, we're building it and now we're starting to understand, like, if we've got this, then why can't we just do it ourselves? Like, if we've got this, then why?

Bret Ridgway: 43:35

can't we just do it ourselves? Just make more sense and, like you said, then you have the list, one of the things that I've seen. I got to tell you a story, carissa. So several years ago I had a gal from Australia produce a beautiful full-color cookbook and we were shipped 15 pallets of this cookbook to handle fulfillment for. Wow. Well, seven years later there was still 14 and a half pallets of this cookbook to handle fulfillment for. Wow. Well, seven years later there was still 14 and a half pallets of this book sitting in our warehouse. So they were paying storage charges, month after month after month for seven years.

Bret Ridgway: 44:09

And the lesson here, I think, is only go to let's call it a traditional publisher or publishing in volume when you have your marketing really working and you know that you can move whatever it is you're having printed. I mean, paying for storage of books that you hope you can sell is crazy and I just hate it If they had to give up the ghost and say, you know, just you know, send them to the recycling place or whatever. We can't afford a storm anymore or whatever. But don't get hung up initially as a new author, especially on the per unit cost of your book.

Bret Ridgway: 44:51

Is it important? Yes, it's important. But you're far better off spending more initially to get the book printed until you prove those marketing channels and those machines are working for you to sell books, and then you can think about printing in volume or whatever. But until you get to that point in time, don't think about oh, I could save $1 or $2 per copy here on my printing. If I print 500 or 1,000 or whatever. That's so smart. Then the number of copies of books sitting in the warehouse still years later, you just boggle your mind.

Bret Ridgway: 45:26

So right, don't have a lot of author friends per unit cost out of the gate I agree.

Carissa Andrews: 45:29

I have so many author friends who see, um, you know someone in their, their specific genre or something where they're, they're moving thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars worth of books every single month and they're like, oh, they're doing it because they've, you know, purchased them from you know china or wherever, and they're getting them for four dollars less per book, or however much, whatever, it doesn't really matter and then they think that's how, that's the only way that they're going to succeed. But I think you're so right because if, if you, we all have breakout series and some series are going to sell, some series aren't. Sometimes it's about market trends, sometimes it's about exposure. It just you have to like, you have to prove that that series is worth that expansion before you go ahead and just get like a whole bunch of books printed Because otherwise you're going to have them sitting in your basement or in somewhere else and paying fees for it for a while.

Bret Ridgway: 46:23

Yeah, that's so smart, that's smart. So you gotta remember also that, whether you're a fiction author or non-fiction author author, that book should first and foremost be a marketing tool for you. It should be something that can drive people from the book to your website to opt in for something. So you've got to bribe them in some way, like we talked about earlier. Maybe it's a bonus chapter or background story on a character. If you're a fiction author and you're in the science fiction world, it could be a PDF map of the imaginary world that you've created or whatever. But use that book as a tool to drive traffic to your site so that you can capture their name and email address and then they're going to be on that list of potential buyers for whatever that next book that you come up with is, because they're obviously interested in what you have. So that book is first and foremost a marketing tool for you and you've got to have calls to action inside that book that can drive them from the book into your world even deeper.

Carissa Andrews: 47:18

Right, that makes so much sense. We do talk about that in the back copy of our back matter of a book and like what you should be doing for call to actions, and I think it's so smart to have, you know, have that special bonus or have that other thing. We've used, sometimes, videos, just thank you, videos like, hey, thank you for buying this thing and reading it. What did you think? Here's a video from me to you and just giving them options to test out, like to see which one's actually resonating with their audience, because sometimes readers just want to see who you are. They want to know, like the person behind the scene too. That's really interesting.

Bret Ridgway: 47:51

So another thing I think that you've got to ask yourself this does not sound funny, but did you even write a book? And yes, I definitely think you should have a book or multiple books out there. But one of the concepts I think is critical to understand as an author, particularly a nonfiction author, is the concept of perceived value, because you know in our mind what's a book worth 15, 20 bucks, because we've been trained that you pay for books For like ever, forever. The reality is that you can take that exact same content, print it out on eight and a half by 11 pages, put it in a three reminder and now it has a perceived value of maybe 37 or $47. Exact same content, but because you packaged it differently, it has a higher perceived value. I mean, add an audio component or something to it, you know, a CD or whatever, or a click here to download, you know online to get to an audio or whatever. Then maybe it has a value of $97 or $197.

Bret Ridgway: 48:53

Now it depends on the market. I mean you have in the internet marketing space, the information marketing world, what we call hard topics and soft topics. Hard topic is going to be something like how to make money in real estate or on the internet. Soft topic is how to improve your relationships or how to bake a cake or whatever. Typically, a hard topic is going to command a high price point than a soft topic. A hard topic is going to command a higher price point than a soft topic. But in the information marketing world, I would tell you that you're typically going to have a higher return rate on a hard topic versus a soft topic. Now, most people don't return books. It's rare that a book is ever returned because it's such a low ticket price. But the fundamental question again is could you even write a book? Should there be a different way that you package your knowledge that allows you to sell it for a higher price point than a 15 or 20 dollar book?

Carissa Andrews: 49:41

Right, or be able to do all of the things like have the IP just distributed in different ways, so have the e-course, have the three ring binder with an audio version, have a booklet that comes with it that you can answer questions like is there multiple ways to be able to deliver the same, the same, the same content and allow those different types of consumers to receive the information right?

Bret Ridgway: 50:05

so what are you going to have beyond the book is essentially the question. I mean, if that book is going to be a marketing tool for you, designed to drive into your website, what else you're going to have available to them to buy from you? I mean, yeah, it's great to sell books, but we're realistic. We know most people aren't going to become New York Times bestsellers and all that. So if that book is a marketing tool for you, what's it going to drive them to that? Maybe you can sell for a higher price point. So, yeah, the book is the lead generator, but maybe you have a coaching program or a membership site or a mastermind group or whatever on the back end. And so think about what you're going to do beyond the book to basically leverage your expertise further.

Carissa Andrews: 50:52

That makes sense. Yeah, okay. So if you had to boil down your advice to just three words for success in speaking, or authorship, or information marketing, what would those three words be?

Bret Ridgway: 51:03

Oh good, gosh, Consistency Relationships. There'll be more than three words, but getting uncomfortable with being uncomfortable.

Carissa Andrews: 51:18

Yeah, no, that makes sense though. Yeah, yeah, uncomfortability, there you go.

Bret Ridgway: 51:23

Create a new word.

Carissa Andrews: 51:25

There you go. That makes so much sense and it goes exactly with the theme that you were just describing, because we're all trying to just get out there, and in this age of the internet it has. That's definitely something. In this age of the internet it has. That's definitely something I've seen since the internet became a thing for me, just seeing how, how much the expansion and the explosion of all the different things that we can do with it, it's made it so much easier in a lot of ways, but also harder to be seen, harder to be that person or that, I don't know that marketer who stands out, and so we have to find those new and interesting ways to embrace the uncomfortability.

Bret Ridgway: 52:04

Yeah, I was actually afraid I created a while back for introverted authors for trying to step up their game or whatever I call it. What do I call it? Going introvertical?

Carissa Andrews: 52:15

Nice, that's good. So I love that. Going introvertical Nice, that's good. I love that. Well, all right. Is there anything else that you wanted to share with my audience before we wrap up today?

Bret Ridgway: 52:25

Let me grab my notes here and see what else, gosh, I talked about most of these. I think I've covered everything that I could share today that would be of value. Carissa, excellent.

Carissa Andrews: 52:37

That means I hit my mark.

Bret Ridgway: 52:39

I got nothing else.

Carissa Andrews: 52:41

Good, that means I did my job Well. Where can my audience go to find out more about you, Brett, and figure out what you do and how you might be able to help them?

Bret Ridgway: 52:51

I've got a couple Carissa. The primary website is brettridgewaycom, and that's Brett with one T and Ridgeway without an E, so B-R-E-T-R-I-D-G-W-A-Ycom. That's the primary website. And then, if you're interested in speaking, I encourage you to check out my podcast, which is called SpotlightOnSpeakingcom.

Carissa Andrews: 53:11

Awesome. Well, Brett, thank you so much for being here and sharing your expertise. I'm so happy that you were able to join us.

Bret Ridgway: 53:16

Well, Well. Brett, thank you so much for being here and sharing your expertise. I'm so happy that you were able to join us. Well, I'm excited to be here, Krista. So thank you so much for having me on as a guest.

Carissa Andrews: 53:22

Well, there you have it, guys. Isn't Brett awesome? He's such a sweet guy, oh man. I was so blessed to be able to speak with him, and he actually ended up introducing me to Judy Baker as well, and so Judy will also be coming onto the show and her interview will be airing in December. So stay tuned for that. But overall, brett gave me so many cool insights and things that I personally could use for when I go to AuthorNation this November.

Carissa Andrews: 53:47

So, speaking of AuthorNation, guys, if you have not gotten your tickets, what are you waiting for? This is going to be the event of the year. It's going to be amazing. We have so many different speakers. The lineup is brand new. It's a. It's a lot different.

Carissa Andrews: 54:01

I was going to say a little different. It's a lot different from what it looked like when it was 20 books, vegas, and there's so many cool new little things that they're testing out and playing with and ways to be able to get incorporated. And, of course, there's going to be rave as well, which I will also be a part of because obviously I'm a fiction author as well. So there's so many cool things that are going on, and so this is taking place November 11th through the 15th. So you're going to want to make sure you get your ticket. Make sure you hop on board this crazy terrain that is Author Nation. It's gonna be so much fun and you'll be able to see me there. I'm going to be doing a talk on manifestation for authors. I will also be on at least one panel that I know when it comes to fiction. So I'll be talking about magical realism and on the panel for that, but there might be others. So so much good stuff that's going to be happening at that event. Make sure you get your tickets and get ready to go for it.

Carissa Andrews: 54:52

Now, guys, I also want to mention, before we end today, I have a brand new masterclass that's going to be coming up on September 20th. It's going to be all about the energetics of multiple pen names. Now, this is coming at a perfect time, as I am gearing up this new social strategy and getting everything organized and thinking about all the ways that we can embody our pen names and do all the things right. So if you're interested in what it's like to be in energetic alignment with your pen names, you're going to want to check out that particular masterclass. It's coming up again September 20th at 1pm.

Carissa Andrews: 55:29

Everything takes place on Zoom, because I love seeing your shining faces, but a replay will also go out. If you'd like to learn more about that, head over to authorrevolutionorg forward, slash 252. The links will be there, in fact, the links to the transcript, to Brett Ridgeway, all the things. They'll all be right at that place. So, authorrevolutionorg forward, slash 252. So there you have it, my friends, this week's podcast episode has come to an end. I hope you've enjoyed it and I hope it was insightful for you. So go forth and start your author revolution. Thank you.