The Secret Phases Every Author Goes Through (But No One Talks About)

Every author experiences highs and lows in their creative journey—but why does it sometimes feel like you're the only one struggling? Whether you're battling writer's block, feeling stuck in self-doubt, or wondering if you're even cut out for this author life, you're not alone. There are hidden phases every writer goes through—phases that no one seems to talk about.

In this episode, I'm joined by Emma Dhesi, and we're uncovering the secret cycles of author success, from the exhilarating beginnings to the frustrating plateaus—and, most importantly, how to navigate them with confidence. 

Plus, Emma is teaching an exclusive masterclass in March 2025 as part of the Author Revolution Masterclass Series, and she's giving us a sneak peek today! Click here to sign up now!

Or visit Emma's website to learn more about her: https://emmadhesi.com/ 

Want the free guide she talked about? Click here! 

And if you're ready to level up even further, doors to the Millionaire Author Manifestation Course open on March 1st, with a special kickoff on St. Patrick’s Day! Register for one of the dates here!

Chapters

• 0:05 The Four Pillars to Author Success
• 9:13 Unlocking Creative Blocks, Finding Your Voice
• 13:06 Overcoming Creative Blocks and Burnout
• 17:11 Recognizing and Overcoming Executive Dysfunction
• 24:05 Navigating Object Permanence and Multi-Passionates
• 35:33 Expanding Awareness & Embracing Growth
• 38:45 Embracing Challenges and Seeking Growth

Transcript

Carissa Andrews: 0:05

Welcome to the Author Revolution Podcast. I'm Carissa Andrews, author and your host here to help indie authors like you master mindset, harness manifestation and embrace cutting-edge innovation to elevate your career. Let's dive in.

Carissa Andrews: 0:26

Hey there, author Revolution fam. Welcome back to another episode of the Author Revolution podcast, where we dive into all the things writing, mindset and manifestation to help you build a thriving author career. Have you ever wondered why writing sometimes feels effortless and other times like you're trudging through quicksand, why some days the words flow like magic and other days even opening your manuscript feels impossible? You're not alone. Every author goes through secret phases of success that no one talks about. But today we're pulling back the curtain. In this episode, I'm bringing back Emma Desi, who has spent years studying the creative journey, and she's here to reveal why you feel stuck, why creative resistance happens and, most importantly, how to move through it with confidence. And here's something extra Emma is teaching an exclusive Author Revolution Masterclass in March 2025, all about this topic.

Carissa Andrews: 1:20

So if you're ready to understand the hidden cycles of your writing journey and finally gain momentum, you won't want to miss it. Stick around until the end for all of the details. Plus, we're diving into writer's block, executive dysfunction and why embracing your inner weirdness might just be the key to your success. So grab your coffee or tea, get comfy and let's get into it. Hi, emma, I'm so excited to have you back on the show. It's been a little while. We've talked about a lot of things over the years, but today I'm bringing you back because you've developed a framework called the Four Pillars to Author Success, and I love number one. That it's the Four Pillars to Author Success Sounds super cool, but can you walk us through what they are and why they matter to writers?

Emma Dhesi: 2:04

Yay, thanks for inviting me back, carissa. It's lovely to get the opportunity to chat to you again. I always love it. Yeah, so the four pillars I just sort of noticed that I went through phases with my writing, particularly the actual storytelling bit of it, the actual physical writing. And you know, there'd be times when it was all great and everything felt it was wonderful, and then times when it was awful. And I noticed this too, sort of in my community but also in the wider world, you know, just on Facebook or social media, seeing the sorts of questions and things that people are asking about their writing. And I realised that we all, we're all doing this, we're all kind of going through these different um phases and what I've called the pillars and, yes, to do with our writing, but also to do with um, all of the phases of being an entrepreneur, of being, of being a writer.

Emma Dhesi: 2:58

So the the first pillar is awareness, just kind of being aware of where you are in this writing landscape. You know if you're straight through the gate. You know you're just through the gate. You've just started, you've maybe written your first short story or something, or you attended your first workshop and everything's so exciting, it's all new and fabulous, all the way up to somebody like yourself, carissa, who's multi-published six figures know, live in the dream and everything in between. We all just have to be aware of where we are in that writing landscape. Then the second pillar is the acceptance of that because, as we know, it's one thing to kind of be observant and understand something, but it's sometimes a different matter to kind of be okay with that and accept that this is where you're at at the moment. This is the phase of writing or of life where you're at at the moment. This is the phase of writing or of life that you're in at the moment, and when it's the nice phase, we're more than happy to accept it. But when it's not so nice, we're a little less willing to accept where we're at and we quite often fight against that.

Emma Dhesi: 4:02

Then the third pillar is the growth pillar, and I would say actually this is the hardest and the longest pillar for the majority of us, especially at the beginning phase when you are really looking to sort of hone your craft, find your voice, establish yourself in your writing life. But equally, that's where a lot of the good stuff happens too. So the growth phase, equally that's where a lot of the good stuff happens too. So the growth phase, the growth pillar, is definitely a big one.

Emma Dhesi: 4:29

And then the fourth one is fun, and I really wanted to include this almost as a reminder to myself but to everybody that what we do is challenging, it's mentally challenging, it's emotionally challenging, it's physically challenging, and so we need to reward ourselves and just recognize the little milestones that we hit and have fun with that.

Emma Dhesi: 4:48

So that might be either in terms of rewarding ourselves after we've hit a milestone, but also just generally to remind ourselves why we got into this in the first place, and for the majority of us it was because it was an escape from all the other stuff. It was our relaxation and the fun thing that drew us into it. And so those are the four pillars, and we move around those pillars all the time. It's not you do one, then two, then three, then four, but you jump from one to the other, to the other, the other, all the time, because it depends what you're working on, which phase you're in, and you might go through all of these phases, all of these pillars when on one project, but equally you'll go through them multiple times over the course of your writing life. So there, it's not a static thing, is what I'm saying.

Carissa Andrews: 5:38

I completely understand that. It kind of just reminds me, too, a little bit of what we were talking about before we hopped on the podcast about, like the 3D and 5D, how we're hopping in and out of all those phases all the time too. It's like we're constantly trying to grow and expand ourselves and, like you said, accept where we're at. When we don't like where we're at, we're still envisioning a better future. I know those of us who are high achievers or who have that perfectionist streak. It's like, no, I see where I have to go, but it's not there yet. Why is it not there yet? And we forget about the fun. So I completely love that pillar. To me, I'm like that's.

Emma Dhesi: 6:15

That's one of them that I've reminded myself over the years this is supposed to be fun, because I don't know if you've noticed this with your sort of newer writers, but certainly I felt it myself and I see in my community that as soon as we make that decision to okay, I'm going to publish this book, we become so earnest about everything and we become so serious about everything that it sort of sucks the joy out of the whole process, and so I want to help us to get back and remember that that it is fun if you let it be.

Carissa Andrews: 6:51

And that comes through and happens as we lose our authenticity, because now, all of a sudden, it's like it's serious and we have to do this seriously and we have to put our mask on because, oh my gosh, what if we showed up as ourselves and people didn't like us? So we have to kind of like I don't know, wash ourselves down or something. It's so weird. Why do we do that?

Emma Dhesi: 7:07

It is down or something. It's so weird. Why do we do that? It is, it is, and I think we've just been having this whole experience recently last weekend with exactly that, actually, and just the feeling of being weird and not fitting in anywhere. And I think that all of us writers feel that to a greater or lesser degree, but me kind of being aware that I have a weirdness and, uh, have an inner weirdness, perhaps not so much an outer one, but being aware that I've got that, but I don't know that I've yet accepted that.

Carissa Andrews: 7:33

I feel you. For me it's been the same thing this past year. All of a sudden I had like a big slap realization across my face where I was like holy crap, I'm autistic and probably have ADHD. Oh my God, where did that come from? Like what just happened.

Emma Dhesi: 7:48

Was that the whole shift in identity?

Carissa Andrews: 7:51

Yeah, but it was so freeing because all of a sudden I'm like, oh my God, that's why I do these things. That's so crazy.

Emma Dhesi: 8:01

So wound up in that then is the awareness that you've got these different ways of seeing the world and then sort of accepting that this is a part of yourself and explains so much, and so I'm sure that there's a lot of growth then. That's coming with that as you learn how to be okay with that side of yourself.

Carissa Andrews: 8:18

And it was like it was like an instant realization. And then I was okay, because before it was almost like why do people not understand me? Or why are people so afraid of learning these things in depth, like what is going on here? It was like my brain couldn't comprehend it. And the more that you realize that people like like there's literally a group of people who are scared of smart people, like if they perceive you as smarter than them, it's almost like it instantly triggers a fear response and so it revolts them. And then there are the people that, like they can't follow and they're kind of like you don't know what you're talking about because they can't follow. And so it's just like once I understood a bunch of these things, all of a sudden I'm like nope, now I know who I'm calling in, it's all good, it's so weird. It's like, all of a sudden I'm like why is why aren't authors realizing what this is like? What's going on here? Oh, I get it. Okay, it was like an instant. Oh, okay. Now.

Emma Dhesi: 9:11

I'm cool. Now I'm cool. It kind of felt instantly good.

Carissa Andrews: 9:13

It's almost like a calm, a weight's been lifted yes, absolutely that acceptance of what is and then, and then just going okay, well, now I know my people, it's all good yeah, yeah, yeah, and can grow in that direction.

Emma Dhesi: 9:26

Now you can grow in that direction, yeah, and enjoy being with those people because they get you absolutely.

Carissa Andrews: 9:32

Yeah, that's where the neurodivergent manifester brand came from and I started spinning into that where it was like, okay, now I know my people and now I know kind of what I want to be or who I want to be teaching so that they understand, because it's way more fun talking to people that get you obviously right. You talk to people and they're like like staring at you, you're like I don't know if this is the right group for me and that I think that's like um in the same, for in terms of our writing and that idea of finding our voice.

Emma Dhesi: 10:02

You know, we read so much about what you should and shouldn't do in your creative life and um, the rules that there are if you want to create some, a piece of fiction, and and we can we can take those so much on board that we do start to lose our inner, weird or inner voice, and because we're trying desperately to fit in, but in that we lose what makes us unique and we lose what it is that people actually would love about us if we let it out yeah, it's so wild and it's like you almost have to go through that phase of like learning all the things so that you can then go back to breaking the rules and being yourself that you were in the beginning it was like this weird full circle to do the whole thing.

Carissa Andrews: 10:42

Oh gosh, was there ever a specific moment or struggle that made you then realize that these four elements were the key to author success? Like was there? Was there a pivotal moment for you that made you come, just stop and go? What?

Emma Dhesi: 10:55

um, I think actually it was around a similar time that, um, I understood a little bit more about writer's block or creative blocks, and how they are more than just um, oh, I'm feeling a bit tired today or I'm not feeling in the mood to write today or to create today, but actually that there's something really going on inside that stops you from even getting to the page from the fear is too much that you can't overcome it. And I was having a sort of round table discussion with some people in my community and trying to understand what it was that was holding them back from writing this book that you know, many of them had been trying to write for decades and some people had even taken a sabbatical from work because they had all the support there to do it, they had the means to do it, but they still didn't write the book. And I thought, well, that's more than just not doing the right class or not, that's a real writer's block, something going on there. And so it started me just looking more deeply into this and just sort of observing what was going on around me and I'm a very slow writer, it takes me a long time to kind of feel happy with something and I noticed myself going through all of these phases and then I'd maybe finish like a third or fourth draft of a manuscript and be feeling really good and feeling that fun section, and then all of a sudden it'd be like no, but I've just read this book over here and I realize mine isn't good enough, I'm not going to fit into that genre well enough, and so the cycle kind of starts again.

Emma Dhesi: 12:22

So it wasn't any one specific moment other than that round table, but I'd say lots of little moments that just made me notice my own behavior around being creative and my writing and and then watching the comments come in on my social media and realizing, ah, okay, so some people you know they they'll maybe comment or email me and you can see, oh, they've got like five years experience and they've published two books and you can hear it in the way that they write, uh, the way that they write the email or the post, there's a sort of um, there's a knowledge there, there's a knowing there. They've understood that they've been through this process several times and whilst they're still feeling the feels, but they know they'll get through it. And then you've got other people who have kind of just started and or have a lot of blocks going on, and so, even though they've been writing for decades, they've not managed to make the shift, and the way that they write and communicate is much more of this kind of, I'd say, a feeling of desperation, of wanting this so badly that it's actually stopping them getting it. And so, because I've now been doing this a little while myself and just kind of understanding that when I look back on my own writing life, I can see how far I've come and it feels really, really good and now I can.

Emma Dhesi: 13:40

It's almost like you take your head up from the page and you look around and you go oh, okay, you know, this is this whole great big landscape and I'm one person that's a third of the way through this path, um, in this landscape and it doesn't mean that I've failed, I've still got a long, long way to go. It's the creative world. You never learn it all, but at the same time, wow, look how far I've come, and that does feel good and it's such a cliche. But it's this, that sort of understanding that life's a journey. It's not the destination, but it is that kind of understanding, or I understanding that, yeah, okay, I'm on the journey and actually that's quite fun and what a lucky place I am to be.

Carissa Andrews: 14:24

Yeah, and it's all about that perception too, isn't it? Like? Because, like, I'll even use myself as an example with Author Revolution podcast. You know I was. I've been doing it for five plus years now and there was a certain point at the end of last year where I just felt like, am I even making a difference? Like, is there even a point to this anymore? Like, should I just be done, done? And so when I was switching over to the Manifest Differently podcast, I was like I don't even know if I'm going to do Author Revolution podcast anymore. I don't even know if I feel called Like I don't like. I've said it all at this point is how it felt.

Carissa Andrews: 14:55

And it wasn't until taking that step back, taking that break and just kind of relaxing my perception or my continual loop of whatever I thought about the podcast, that all of a sudden I'm like looking around, I'm lifting my head up from the page and realizing there are other podcasts out there that I've always really looked up to and I'm realizing in certain like charts or whatever that I'm actually higher up on the podcast. Like, even without like podcasting, frequently I'm higher up and I was like hang on a second, what? Wait a second, when did that happen? What? Or like little things, where I, all of a sudden, I'm like I have something to say to this audience and I didn't think I had anything more to say. Do I do I still say it then, or do I just do I continue? But it is. It's this whole big phase of like having to almost take that step back for a sec and realize what you have done.

Carissa Andrews: 15:47

I think when you were talking about blocks for me, I've always struggled with that concept, whether it's, you know, money blocks or manifestation blocks or whether it's writing blocks. Because, like as a kid when I grew up, my mom was, she's an artist and so she paints, and she taught us like there's always a creative solution to everything. You're never blocked with something right, so you can, you can you make a spill, you draw something wrong, you do like it was almost like that Jamie Lee Curtis book that they did. I can't remember what the book was called. It's like a baby, a kid's book, but it was so good and like anytime you beautiful, oops, I think is maybe what the book was called.

Carissa Andrews: 16:24

And so you make a mistake, but you can always do something creative with it, right? And so I onboarded that as a kid for everything. So blocks don't really mean anything to me, except as I was studying, you know, I'm still learning about neurodivergence, I'm still learning about ADHD, autism, whatever, and I'm learning more about executive dysfunction. And so there are certain times where I catch myself where it's like it's not a block, but it's like I literally cannot get myself to execute on this thing right now, and it's usually because I'm burnt out, I'm overwhelmed in other areas of my life, and so I just can't. I can't get the like email. Sometimes it's like I just I can't even bother with emails. It's just and that's how I know I've reached burnout. And the more I'm learning about executive dysfunction, I'm like I wonder if that's actually what all these blocks are. It's like, literally, you've got something else that needs to be resolved before you can get back into your executing mode.

Emma Dhesi: 17:17

So just tell me what the executive dysfunction is.

Carissa Andrews: 17:21

It's literally where, like you're almost from what I understand it so far, it's where you've got so many things that are bombarding your attention that there are certain things that you just cannot execute on.

Carissa Andrews: 17:32

So you want to, you want to be able to respond to emails, you want to be able to write that book, but because your brain is being pulled elsewhere, it's almost like when you've had a fight, right, let's say you've had a fight with your spouse and it's terrible, and you still have to, like, write your chapter. It's like how are you going to write that chapter when you're emotionally tied back to that argument that was going on? You can't. There's no executive. You can't execute on that chapter, at least not to the best of your ability. If you were calm, right. But it can be a myriad of ways where you just literally are blocking yourself because something else needs your attention, but you're not allowing yourself to go there.

Emma Dhesi: 18:08

Yeah, so it's almost. There's too much pulling on you and so much you don't know where to start, don't know how, to which should take priority, and so just not do any of them Exactly, and I'm sure there are different layers to executive dysfunction too.

Carissa Andrews: 18:20

I'm still like I said, I'm still learning it all. I'm still learning the language of it all and understanding, like, how it actually affects me. But it's kind of I like the language of it better than block two, because now it doesn't feel like you can't get around it. It's it's just oh, okay, now it's a an awareness point for me where I go. Okay, I am feeling this executive dysfunction. I need to figure out what's actually trying to get my attention right now. It doesn't mean I need to take a step back, take a break, do a little less like what, what's going on, and it just kind of helps me be more present yeah, but yeah, yeah, it's really fascinating.

Emma Dhesi: 18:53

Yeah, yeah, my son has adhd and um, and one of the reasons I first started thinking that he might there might be something going on is because I'm sure you remember kids there's a certain age at which they can learn to take on. You can give them three instructions at the same time and they can execute all three, and even at an advanced stage he couldn't do it, and I remember thinking, ah, okay, so we just, we still just had and this was maybe at the age of seven or eight we still have to do one at a time, because otherwise it didn't know which to prioritize, and so we just be like a rabbit in the headlights.

Carissa Andrews: 19:27

Freeze yeah, it's that, it's that whole nervous system functional. Freeze. You just get into that like I can't. I cannot function, there is no. There is no execution happening here. It's not going to go. It's not going to go forward. But it brings you back to awareness.

Emma Dhesi: 19:42

It does it's just that awareness solves so many issues and I think for the people who who then did develop this course for people with with blocks, and I think just given it's not specifically about writing, but just when they have that awareness of what else is going outside, going on outside of their creative life, that that is having an impact on them, then there's something they can do about it. And of course, there's always a bit of resistance. I'm not going to accept that. I can't believe what's happening over here with my sister has got anything to do with what's happening with my writing.

Carissa Andrews: 20:16

But actually I used to think that too, I'd get sick and I'd be like, no, it's not going to impact my writing at all. And then I'd read everything back from like the two or three days that I was really sick and everyone was super crabby in my books. I'm like I don't think I should be writing when I'm not feeling well, because now I have to redo it all anyway and I was like, no, it's not happening okay, but yeah, and then we get.

Emma Dhesi: 20:39

If we accept that, then we can grow, we can make the changes, we can do the executive side of it, do our checklists or whatever it is that we need to, uh, to help us keep moving forwards and keep keep functioning, and then when we we achieve that little thing, we can go.

Carissa Andrews: 20:54

Yes, now I'm going to reward myself for hitting that milestone no doubt that's definitely one that I need to do better on the whole, like rewarding and and being aware when I get an accomplishment taken care of I don't know if that's the I think it's the ADHD side where it's like it, you finish it, the dopamine is gone and it's like you kind of like forget that it even exists and move on to the next thing, and I think you're showing exactly how important that is, because you're a very busy person.

Emma Dhesi: 21:19

You've got a full family life, you've got a very full working life, and I think you're I don't know if you're still renovating your home, but that's another big thing going on.

Emma Dhesi: 21:27

Personally I'm not, but Colin definitely is so kind of being able to hit one of your milestones and just take a moment and it's not even a big thing, it might just be an extra chocolate bar, or even just physically giving yourself a pat on the shoulder to say good job that will give us a little bit of a dopamine. Hit um and make us feel good and make us want to carry on and do the next thing as well. For sure, yeah you need to be doing this, yes yes, oh, and that's.

Carissa Andrews: 21:55

It's definitely something I've been working on, probably probably since like 2019. I've been trying to like get better. Every every year gets just a little bit better, getting getting to that point of slowing down just enough to be able to be like that was pretty cool. That was pretty cool like I just got. I mean, I went over the the 100k mark from uh Kajabi, so like I've earned a hundred thousand plus on Kajabi for author evolution, so I got a little pin oh nice congratulations.

Carissa Andrews: 22:22

And they sent me a microphone, like I just got that yesterday. Wow, I'm like. Okay, I can take a moment and celebrate that.

Emma Dhesi: 22:29

That's pretty awesome, that is awesome.

Carissa Andrews: 22:32

Yeah, yeah, but it's awesome uh, nor I don't know how to celebrate that. It's like I, I get it and I'm like, woohoo, I set it aside and then I go back and do my work. I was like put the pin on right, I'll just wear my pin everywhere when people ask.

Emma Dhesi: 22:47

I'll be like because it's awesome but I bet you, though, when you opened that box or that envelope or whatever and you acknowledged it well, they'd forced you to acknowledge it it did feel good. There was maybe part that kind of just contributes to that feeling of, yeah, I am doing a good job with my podcast.

Carissa Andrews: 23:04

I'm going to carry on doing this because I'm giving something out and clearly people are enjoying it right right, it's so good and I think it's so important that we do stop for a second, because if we don't, it's almost like we put ourselves into a loop where we're not, um, we're not acknowledging how we're growing, so that pillar of growth, we're not acknowledging that the growth, and so we kind of then stay stuck in that level of like nothing's working. Why is nothing working? And when you're in that mindset, nothing feels like it's working, even though there is a growth. We just can't see it.

Emma Dhesi: 23:37

It's so weird and trippy, yeah yeah, you're just too entrenched and we need that third eye, which is one of the great things about about kajabi sending you that, but about community and about working with maybe just one critique partner or a little critique group, if you like that, but that people are able to feed back to you and say, oh well, done you? You did this. Do you remember you were struggling with that and you've nailed it, you've got that scene written. Or do you remember you were so nervous about doing that podcast interview but you did it and it was really good? All of these little things, we need those external. It's not a validation thing, but it is a reminder to validate ourselves.

Carissa Andrews: 24:13

Yeah, yeah, one of the things. I think it was Quinn Ward who told me about object impermanence. So those of us who do have ADHD, when we finish something, it's like it never existed. So like you know, even all the books, right? If you write all the books, you move on and you're only focused on the one that you're writing right now. None of the others technically exist anymore in your head because of object impermanence. And so, unless we go back and refresh our memory, it's almost like we're constantly in that striving mode because we don't, we don't stop and go. Oh my, my god, look at all those books that are back there hang on a second.

Emma Dhesi: 24:46

What?

Carissa Andrews: 24:46

just happened like we. We don't. It's like it does.

Emma Dhesi: 24:49

It literally doesn't even come up in our brains so I wonder if you're making me think about all of these, um, these authors who have written, you know, 200, 300 books, um, and because that takes a level of focus, yeah, not, the majority of people don't have. And so now I'm just I've got one woman in particular in my head and I'm now going oh, I wonder if she's got that very likely, very likely.

Carissa Andrews: 25:22

I have a couple of students that are like that, where they've written so many books and they're like why can't I break through this particular thing? And it's not even so much that they don't. Obviously they know how to write. They've been doing it for a long time, They've been selling books. They're doing that whole like I'm staying at the same income level, but I'm writing all the time Like why is that the the case? And it's because they forget about everything that they've built as well. They're not celebrating it, they're not sharing it, they're not talking about it and so and maybe they're not even putting it in their backlist or anything. So people don't even like they literally read the new book and they have no idea that there are hundreds to go choose from. And so we stopped taking that inspired action that helps us to grow, because we're not focusing on that element of it whatsoever. It's super fascinating.

Emma Dhesi: 26:09

Yeah.

Carissa Andrews: 26:09

We have to especially if you know you have ADHD or you think maybe you do. I think it's really important that we have those moments where we just take us, take a moment, you know, even if it's like once a month, once a quarter, to stop and and like relook at everything that we've accomplished this year, or throughout our author career, throughout our lives, whatever, because it's so, it's so beneficial to boost our morale, to see where we're going to realize that no, I am in mid-manifestation, mid-journey, whatever, um, and it's, it's all working out for me. Why am I worried?

Emma Dhesi: 26:41

yeah, yeah, and when you take away that stress and that kind of uh, unnecessary level of, then, you can enjoy it so much more. And I do think that that then sort of ripples out into the work itself and there's a joy on the page.

Emma Dhesi: 26:57

And you know how sometimes you read a book and you're like, oh, the author really enjoyed writing this and you can tell, yeah, the way that it comes out and I think if we have that in us, if we're enjoying what we're doing and even enjoying the challenge of it because it's a challenge we can figure out then I think that does um sort of spill onto the page and we can, and we then feel good about that project and that book that we've just written, which then helps facilitate that dopamine hit, that feeling good and that want to get back in and get stuck into the next project.

Carissa Andrews: 27:28

Yeah, and I think that's so crucial because if you're going to be sitting there in that why is nothing working phase, it gets to that point where not only does burnout settle in, but you get discouraged, and then you don't even want to do the writing. You know, yes, yes yes, that's not fun.

Carissa Andrews: 27:47

I mean we got into this because it, it, it. I mean most of us I can only speak for myself, I guess, but it's like it feels, fulfills something in your soul where it's like you have something you need to get out and it's one of the only ways you know how you know.

Emma Dhesi: 27:59

Yeah, no, it does. I think for some of us it is the well if I think about of us, it is the well if I think about myself. It is the written word or the spoken word, that's the thing that is my, that keeps my brain balanced. But I know for others it's doing things with their hands, so whether it's drawing or sculpting or ceramics or knitting, whatever it might be, just in the same way that for other people it's going to be going for a jog and it's that physical movement, that that is the bit that helps balance their brain and and gives them that outlet that just means that the rest of life can carry on well, um, I've tried doing stuff you know the crafting and things with my hands, but it just doesn't give me that same feeling of um, that same feeling of joy at all. And but yeah, I know that there are people who do it all. They do a little bit of it all and each different activity gives them a different type of pleasure and a different kind of gratification in their brain.

Carissa Andrews: 28:56

I'm just thinking kind of like we were talking about Gabby Bernstein's book Self-Help, and those of you who are listening, if you haven't checked out that book, definitely go check out that book. It's amazing. And those of you who are listening, if you haven't checked out that book, definitely go check out that book. It's amazing. But she talks about how there's different parts inside of us that are wanting to protect vulnerable emotions, bigger emotions, and so I kind of wonder if the people who have all these extra hobbies and things that really light them up, are they just tapping into more of like aspects of themselves, that where it's telling them what makes them feel good and what to go do?

Carissa Andrews: 29:30

Like for me, I don't have very many hobbies, but I definitely notice parts of myself where it's like if I haven't worked out, I gotta go do that. Like I need that physical movement to just shift something energy-wise. But for me, like my hobbies are more intellectual, it's like, ooh, let's go learn about quantum physics today. Let's go, let's go think about the nature of reality. I don't know, let's. So for me, like my hobbies are more mental and but it's shifting gears of the mental aspects, like it's not authorship, it's not quantum physics, it's not manifestation, it's now, you know, self-help, like, like. It's not authorship, it's not quantum physics, it's not manifestation, it's now, um, you know, self-help, like whatever. It's it healing, um, whatever, yeah, so there, there are different. I think there's different ways to be able to tap into that yeah, multi-passionate people?

Emma Dhesi: 30:17

yeah, very much so.

Emma Dhesi: 30:19

And I I get the feeling and I might get lambasted for this but that because we do so many, because some people do so many of these different things, then it's for its own sake.

Emma Dhesi: 30:30

People are enjoying it. For its own sake it's not to become the best at any one thing in particular. So we might never be that six figure selling author, we might never have that back catalogue of 30 books, but along the way we've enjoyed making this rag rug, or we've enjoyed doing this sewing, or we've enjoyed scrapbooking and we've enjoyed writing the book, but it's we're never going to get all the, we're never going to get to the end of that pathway because we're getting pulled in so many different directions and I don't think one is better than the other, not at all. But I think it does just depend on how your brain is put together and what makes you feel. And I've just been reading a book about this, about multi-passionate people and how we often feel as part of the weirdness, and people are often say just choose something and stick with it, and for some of us that's just not possible.

Carissa Andrews: 31:22

Or it's a miserable life if you do do it. We live in like a specialist society right now and and the generalist is kind of put to the side. But I think there's a tiktoker that I follow that she always talks about, you know, being that multi-passionate generalist because, um, these are the type of people that are going to end up kind of taking over and dominating the new economy whenever it truly shifts, because there's so much we live in an information age, right and there's so much knowledge that these generalists we typically have because we are so interested and passionate in so many different topics. And so, you know, it was kind of interesting.

Carissa Andrews: 31:58

I had a one-on-one coaching client just last week and, you know, in the author sphere you know many of the like I could never peg myself down to one thing. It was like it didn't feel right to just I'm going to be the Facebook person or the, you know, the ad person. I didn't want. I didn't want to peg myself into that hole, and so I was doing a lot of different teachings and understanding a lot of different things, and it wasn't until talking to this gentleman and him going oh my gosh, you're a generalist, you're the type of one-on-one coach that does these things and knows all of the stuff, instead of just like the one, the one topic he's like.

Carissa Andrews: 32:34

This is amazing, and so it was, like you know, we had the best. It was like an entire six package session. So we did his course over six days and it was like we were all over the place touching on everything. And it was like we were all over the place touching on everything and it was like the most like, even from the coaching perspective. So interesting to talk to him because he got it. He understood all these different pieces, but he knew that he didn't know them yet.

Emma Dhesi: 32:55

You know, if that makes sense so it sounds like he was a generalist too and was just. You were just the right person who could get that about him and not try and pigeonhole him into one thing that he, yeah, enjoyed but didn't want to focus his whole life on.

Emma Dhesi: 33:08

Because we hear that a lot in the entrepreneurial life and I would say the authorpreneurial life as well pick your niche and you go with it and you become known for that one thing, so that couldn't do it, I couldn't do it coaching, or it could be the genre in which we write, but so many people who are creative find that really hard and want to be able to express themselves in doing a children's book and a woman's fiction book and they want to do a memoir as well, and it's I really like that. You've said that. The generalist again. Just that that there's a word for that makes me kind of go okay, I'm not alone in this. I'm not. I might be weird, but I'm not the in this. I'm not. I am. I might be weird, but I'm not the only weird person right there definitely not.

Carissa Andrews: 33:49

I will have to like send you the link to the lady that talks about it, because she's amazing, I love her. She's like she's so in your face about it, like don't even like dim your shine, like this is how it works, like you know what I mean. It's so great and it's like we need to just accept our quirkiness and be okay with it and just follow our passions because, um, you know, if you follow anyone like daryl anka and bashar, I don't know if you know. Do you know who daryl anka is in bashar?

Carissa Andrews: 34:11

okay so um bashar is a channeled group of entities, um, and so like they're talking about, like when we are human, in our human form, like our job literally is to just follow our excitement to the furthest part part. You can take it and then, when you can't take it to to any further, you find something else at that level of excitement that's going to excite you and you just follow that until you can take it no further, and that's literally like what we're supposed to be doing. As we explore this reality that we live in but in in so many of us, we're trying to tamp it down so that we fit into those boxes. And as we shift from this like we were talking before, the call this 3D reality into 5D reality, we're going to see a lot more people who are so multi-passionate, because there's so many cool things about this world to be checking out and I don't want to spend my entire time talking about Facebook ads, like what. No.

Emma Dhesi: 35:10

What? Talking about Facebook ads like what no, what no? But I do sometimes wonder would life just be simpler if I did, if I could just choose one thing and stick with it.

Carissa Andrews: 35:15

It would be so boring I would be, I would be dead. I'd be, I'd be snoozing while I was talking to people. I'd be like, anyway, I'm doing this thing, hang on, let me. Let me type something over here while I'm still talking to you like I can do that with my kids and they're like how are you?

Emma Dhesi: 35:33

still typing that did happen to me in an attempting job I had many years ago was doing data work on computers, and every sort of 20 minutes or so I'd have to get up and go to the toilet because I could just feel myself drifting off right. It was awful. I felt really embarrassed and very unprofessional, but it was a real sign to me. Emma, you are not meant for the banking world.

Carissa Andrews: 36:00

Yeah, that is, that is not intellectually stimulating enough.

Emma Dhesi: 36:04

I'm pretty sure it wasn't for me, that's for sure, oh isn't that funny.

Carissa Andrews: 36:09

Yeah, the repetition thing for me is the same. It's the same. It's like I can't do repetition and I think that's part of the the problem that I've had with the podcast. It's like I don't want to have to redo episodes, or unless it like there's something really new. Right, if there's something new and that's really on my mind, then I'll share it, but it's like I don't want to have to keep talking about one topic. I think about Amy Porterfield, right, and she talks about, you know, teaching courses and then lead magnets, and that's all she really talks about, and every once in a while she brings people in. That'll kind of be outside that fringe, but that's like her world. I could not do that for years on end, talking about the same exact thing. It just I couldn't do it.

Emma Dhesi: 36:46

No, no, I'm exactly the same. But I have tried and I don't know if you find yourself in the earlier days as well listening to people like Amy, who is so amazing at what she does and is so clear at what she does, and I wanted to be like her and emulate her. And same with Denise Duffield Thomas. You know, yeah, money mindset that's her big big thing. But I found that I just cannot sustain that level of interest in talking about you know, they've been doing it for 15, 20 years now. It's like I couldn't do that for that length of time. Instead, I want to bring what I'm learning to the forefront and bring that energy and enthusiasm and hopefully inspire other people to be interested in learning about what I've been doing. And then I'll be super passionate about that for a while and then I'll be like, okay, oh, what's this shiny thing over here? Let me go and discover that.

Carissa Andrews: 37:35

And then share it with you. Same same, and I think you know it goes back to that like when you look at the um nature of reality, you know the universe is expanding, and Abraham Hicks talks about being on the forefront of that expansion. Like we are the conscious creators on the forefront of expansion. And the reason that's happening is because when new information comes into us, we're excited about it and we grow our knowledge and we continue to expand with it. And so I kind of view ourselves like that we're at the forefront, helping others to expand their awareness, rather than just staying stagnant in this one area, and it's not necessarily like stagnant stagnant, I'm sure they're bringing in new concepts for themselves as well, but it's just, it's like they've not given themselves permission to come out of that just a little bit, and I couldn't do that to myself, I don't know why.

Emma Dhesi: 38:23

No no, I guess it's that you think you enjoy the sort of challenge aspect of it as well, that your brain is being challenged and your understanding and your capabilities are being challenged and that that is exciting to you.

Carissa Andrews: 38:37

Yeah, and it's that growth aspect right. So it goes back to the growth and understanding and allowing that knowledge to come in, and the challenge. For sure, I've always, I've always thrived in those, those challenge areas. You know it, just it. I don't know why it just sparked something in me where I'm like, heck, yeah, let's try this, let's see it, let's see how it works, let's go. I've never been like that yeah, yeah. How about you? Have you always been like that too, like where you're always interested to take on a challenge?

Emma Dhesi: 39:07

I think so. I think so. I find I feel like I'm a sort of funny mix of the two. I really quite like a lazy life. I'll take the shortcut if I can, but at the same time I am always looking to learn something new, to do something different, to challenge myself. But I notice, um and this is again I I've had this kind of awareness recently um, that I will do as long as it feels safe.

Emma Dhesi: 39:32

I'm not very good yet at being someone who goes okay, this is massive and I'm just gonna throw myself into it and see what happens.

Emma Dhesi: 39:40

Okay, I do tend to be a little bit more of a baby steps or want someone else to guide me along the way, so I still get the heart palpitations and the excitement doing it and that it could all go wrong. I do tend to be a little bit more of a baby steps or want someone else to guide me along the way, so I still get the heart palpitations and the excitement doing it and that it could all go wrong. But I feel I've given myself the steps to do it and so for that reason, that might be in terms of quantum shifts and quantum jumps that might be one of the things. I think it probably is one of the things that's holding me back. Um, so my next growth in that area should I choose to accept it would be to kind of just jump in both feet and see what happens, and if it fails it fails, but if it succeeds, that could be well it could be, um, the thing that helps you with that.

Carissa Andrews: 40:20

It could be like doing the self-help book from Gabby seriously, because when, when you have that, um, there's a fine line between anxiety and excitement, right?

Carissa Andrews: 40:28

and so when you can lean into, like, what's what's causing you to not want to take the leap in excitement and, kind of tune, go inward and ask those questions of yourself, like do you have, um, a child in there that that did something and was just like completely out there and was so happy, but you had an uncle who, like slapped you back and said, no, you can't do that sort of thing, that's not how, how it's done. And now all of a sudden you think that that is impossible, you can't do those things. And so then the second you think about doing it, your nervous system gets dysregulated, which puts you into the whole fight, flight freeze moment, and so then you can't move unless you resolve or see, bring to light those feelings, right?

Emma Dhesi: 41:08

so it's not even distinguish between those two, that excitement, and because physically it's the same, isn't it?

Emma Dhesi: 41:13

the excitement and the fear physically manifest the same, yeah, yeah yeah they do it's so weird in that little sort of example that you were giving there. You reminded me that a couple of weeks ago I went into town with my kids to go shopping and we went to a record store that sells all, all sorts of things as well as records, and, um, the kids these days love these potluck things, don't they? They just love these. And I don't think it was a potluck thing. But I opened it anyway to have a look and the three of them just went oh, because somewhere along the line they've been I don't know if it's come from me, but somewhere along the line they've been told you can't open things and have a look at them.

Emma Dhesi: 41:50

I don't think this was a potluck thing, because I did feel bad and then we realized no, it wasn't. But that's just exactly that example. So I've gone there in there and broken that rule that you don't open things in the shop until you've bought it and taken it home. So I wonder how that's then going to play out for them. Is this going to be something that they just think I'm a criminal, or it will encourage them that they can? They can open things and check that they work and aren't broken before they buy?

Carissa Andrews: 42:15

them right, right, I, I know one. For me that that brought up was when Colin first came here from England. Like he, I guess this is just the way he he's always been, I don't know if it's, I doubt it's everyone in England but um, you know, like we'd be going around the grocery store and he would get like a bag of chips. This was like when we first got together. He'd get a bag of chips. He just opened it and started eating the chips and I'm like you haven't paid for those yet. Like what are you doing? You eat those, yet he's like why we're gonna pay for them when we get to the counter, like what?

Emma Dhesi: 42:46

and I'm just like, oh my god, no, but you know, it's just, it's so weird how we get, we do we get trained on these like unspoken rules yeah, oh no, I don't think I would do that, or if I did, I'd be very um, I'd feel very defensive the whole way around, waiting for somebody to say you're not allowed to do that.

Carissa Andrews: 43:05

And I know it never does. I mean really, they're all like getting paid minimum wage, they don't care. They're like do you boo, Like whatever.

Emma Dhesi: 43:16

But in my head I've blown this up to be this really big thing and that everybody's staring at me and someone's going to come and call me out on it, but they're not. It's. It is a funny state that we get ourselves into and can stop ourselves from doing something exciting or doing something new or a bit or a bit naughty, um, just in case yeah, just to see what happens, see how you feel, see what goes on like are you excited about it?

Carissa Andrews: 43:37

I don't know.

Carissa Andrews: 43:40

I still can't say that I've ever done that myself, but so now do you open the bag of chips as you're going around well, I don't really eat chips anymore either, but um, no, I don't, I don't think. I think my the perfectionist Hermione side of my brain still goes you can wait until you get home, or at least in the car. Like wait until you get in the car, then maybe you paid for them. Yeah, yeah, oh gosh, too funny. We are so humans are so funny how we give ourselves rules and you know. Then, when you see people breaking it, it's like what, how, what? And you expect alarm bells to go off. I mean I'm even looking at like the united states right now. I'm like where's the alarm bells right now?

Emma Dhesi: 44:24

people like come on yes, yeah, but I think it is just a sort of um, you know, if we think about ourselves, we are the sort of hero of our own stories, aren't we? And so everything in our lives we feel we see from our own perspective. And if I was just to sort of think about our writers, who are maybe listening, and it's that same way with our protagonists and our characters and our antagonists in particular, that each of them are looking to see the world from their own perspective, whatever that might be.

Emma Dhesi: 44:56

And you know, our characters go through each of these pillars in their own little way as well, as they go through that character arc and that journey that they're having quite often your protagonist does not have the awareness that they need to have, they're not sure where they are, they don't understand, and then a big part of the middle section is that growth that they go through and then at the end and the, the climax of the scene and the denouement, then they, then they can have the fun that they've been through that tough, that tough side. But it's, yeah, we it's. It's a journey that we all go on, whether it's in real life or in our minds or as the rest of the world perceives us, but certainly just even in the shopping, going, grocery shopping we'll go through these, these, these four pillars.

Carissa Andrews: 45:43

Absolutely have you. You know know, success in writing isn't always about like what we add, but is there ever anything? Has there ever been anything that you've had to unlearn when it comes to your process, your writing, your coaching, business, whatever that really made a huge difference in your success?

Emma Dhesi: 45:59

oh, to unlearn? That's a good question to unlearn? Um, actually a recent one has been. So when I first started, then my big belief was, if you're going to be an indie writer, you've got to have a huge, great big back catalogue and then you've got to sell millions of them and you've got to become this six-figure author and it's about almost like this conveyor belt and I would go to conferences and I would see the very successful people up there on the podium and I'll be, and they've published hundreds of books and thinking that's what I've got to be able to do, but confused too about how they've, how do they write so fast and so quickly? And so there was a kind of I attempted to do this for a period of time and then I had to unlearn this and realize, well, actually, probably not so much unlearn it, but realize that I couldn't learn it, it wasn't in me, and that I'm just a much slower writer.

Emma Dhesi: 46:58

And I I do enjoy the character side of it. I do want to have deeper characters. I don't. I do want to write books that have more depth than then really than you can write if you're publishing a book a month. So I want to take that time, or I'm, I'm accepting that that's just the way I am. I wish I could write a depth-filled book in a month and I'd have a whale of a time and I'd have a huge back catalogue. But I just accept and understand that that's not the way I write and so I'm unlikely unless I suddenly hit the zeitgeist and I have this big bestseller that catches fire.

Emma Dhesi: 47:34

Then it'll be a slow, steady road for me and that is okay and in fact that's probably preferable for me, because I do want to do other things. I don't want to write for 10 hours a day, like many of those writers have to do. I want to be able to do a few hours a day and then go and do the other things in life and spend some time with my kids, or you know, I want to learn a language, all those little things, and go and read the books that you've been recommending to me and all of those other things. So that has been something that certainly helped me, just this, an idea of slowing down and going at my own pace. I think that certainly helped me in my own writing and I think, too, in terms of my coaching, it's helped me have that same empathy for or understanding that for my clients, the clients who I attract, the writers I attract they're.

Emma Dhesi: 48:26

They also are writing stories that they've been thinking about for decades usually, and they have something to say and they really want to say it. Well, they are not looking for that quick, uh, quick, rapid release, but they, they, and so that's why they come to me, I think, because they understand that I take my time and that gives them permission to take their time, um and uh, and get it and write the book that they want to write. So I probably say that's the closest to sort of unlearning. And in terms of craft, maybe I can't write to market, so having to kind of not try and fit that template for writing in a specific genre, but maybe just take elements of it and write the book that I naturally write, which I'm learning, is then that's how I, you know, my voice comes, that's how I learn my voice and I develop my voice as a writer. And again, that's the same for the writers that I work with. We need to take our time to figure that bit out, because I think that does take time to figure that out.

Carissa Andrews: 49:28

Well, I think so many of us have something that we're we're really wanting to say, and if you're trying to fit it into a mold of like writing to market for every book, you're not getting. You still feel silence then, because you don't feel like you're saying the thing that you you're meant to be saying. You're just kind of fitting in with the sea of all the people who are saying exactly the same thing.

Emma Dhesi: 49:49

Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah I get that and there's a place for those books as well. Don't get me wrong, because, um, there are a lot of readers who maybe have a stressful job and they just want to read a fun, fun story at the end of the day. A friend of mine who was she used to be a lawyer with, um, the United Nations and dealt with some really difficult things, so she her favorite type of book. She just loved Jackie Collins because you know, it was just fun, it was ridiculous, um, and you could laugh along with it and enjoy it and not have to think about it so good.

Carissa Andrews: 50:23

I love that. I mean, obviously, the indie publishing world moves super fast. You know, we've got AI, we've got rapid releasing. Like you just said, algorithm changes it's. It's a lot. Um, how can authors use the four pillars then to create a career that's sustainable for them, instead of burning them out?

Emma Dhesi: 50:40

yeah, good question, and and this is a big topic now, isn't it? I think we have seen so many writers doing the writing for 10 hours a day, absolutely burning themselves out. I think one of the places to um start with that is sort of knowing way, knowing what success will look like for you, knowing what it is that you actually want to do with your writing. I think that why are you doing? This question is so, so relevant and probably would start there before even stepping into the four pillars. You know what is it that you want to do. Do you want a massive back catalogue? Do you have the type of personality and brain that can write for 10 hours every day? And, actual fact, you would enjoy that? That's one thing. But then, understanding if you're not, if you've got a full-on job, if you've got kids, or you've got caring responsibilities, or or you just don't want to right you just you've got that slower pace. I think starting there is um, that is the best place. So then you can sort of think about how you're going to go forward and you know that's the level of awareness right there. Isn't it just aware of what it is that you are trying to do? And I would say regularly, lift your head up from the page, if you can, and sort of look around so you get. You can see what other people are doing. You know, look at the authors that you admire and see where they started from. I think a lot of newer writers particularly forget that their favorite writer was where you are now, where they are now. You know JK Rowling was sat in a cafe as a single mum trying to write whenever she could. Stephen King did have those years where, yes, he was prolifically writing and he had Tabitha to help him along the way, but he was still teaching and he was still having to find a way around it, and even the height of his alcoholism. You know we had to manage that those demons and do his writing. So you know, we start, we all start pretty much in the same place and then that journey will take us along whichever path we make the choices about, and then just accepting that that is. You know, if you do want to do the rapid releasing, accept that you're going to have to put in the hours. There's no two ways about it, it takes a lot of work or if you don't want to do that, know that it's just going to take you longer and that that's okay, and don't try and push yourself into being the type of writer that you're not naturally fitted to be. Um, and in both of those circumstances and in all of the ones that are in between, the growth will happen, naturally. That will happen. As long as you don't give up, then the growth will happen.

Emma Dhesi: 53:17

I mean, certainly, when I wrote my first book, um, the sort of bet that I gave myself, or the dare that I gave myself, was just to finish the first draft. And if I finished that first draft, then I'd know was this just the worst thing I'd ever done? Did I hate every single minute of it or did I enjoy it? Because if I hated it, then I'd, I'd stuck with it, I'd finished the project. I'd finished it from beginning to middle and end, and then I knew I had the experience now and the evidence of whether I enjoyed it or not, and then I could. Then I could take that off, if you like. I'd done it. I'd achieved something I'd always wanted to achieve and discovered it wasn't what I hoped it would be. That in and of itself is huge, huge growth. Um, and gave would have given me the awareness that being a writer was not for me and thankfully I did.

Emma Dhesi: 54:06

I've got the fun factor and that kind of feeling that dopamine hit of having finished that first draft was amazing and I decided, yes, I did want to go on and revise it, but it's just not giving up, because I think it was two years to do the first draft and then another five to do the revision. But slowly, slowly, catchy monkey, you know, just don't give up. And if we accept the way that we are, as our personalities, as weird or unweird as we feel that we are, we will get there. And if that is in and of itself, will the sustainability will look after itself. Just knowing we can't do everything straight out of the gate, we don't have to do everything straight away, we've got to make it a part of our lives that feels right and it will figure itself out as you go along.

Emma Dhesi: 54:54

But the most important thing really is to enjoy it. Because if you're enjoying something, you can get hyper focused, you can get, you can do it for hours and hours if you're enjoying it. But if you're forcing yourself to do things that you're too tired, you're ill, you're not relishing, it's not the kick that it used to give you. It's not the fun that it used to be you. It's not the fun that it used to be. You're going to burn out so much quicker and so stop, just take the break, revisit it.

Emma Dhesi: 55:18

Do you want to come back to it? Or, actually, has writing one book, one memoir, that's actually been enough for you and that's all you've needed to do. And you'll know in your own heart as well no, I've got so many more stories I want to tell or books to write, and so it is an inner thing I'm thinking about. You know, you were mentioning Gabby Bernstein there and looking in kind of examining self-examination there, the feelings that you have around your writing. Do they come from a place of excitement or are they coming from a place of fear? And then you get to make a decision about it after that. But just, yes, periodically come up for air and kind of think, okay, where am I now? What's going on? Am I still enjoying this? Do I need a break or am I raring to go?

Carissa Andrews: 55:59

yeah, I think that's so key, like have it, have your why at first, but be okay with the pivot. If you get presented with some new evidence and you're like you know, maybe not, maybe we'll slow down a little bit. Or, like life circumstances change. I know for me I get very like I make a decision and I will go after it and there will be a point in time if something's not working the way I want, that I have to pause and go. Okay, is it not working because, like I had unrealistic expectations? Is it not working because that's not meant for me? Is that not working because I subconsciously don't want it?

Carissa Andrews: 56:37

What's happening here, and then I have to pause, reassess and then give myself a new. Why Does that ever happen?

Emma Dhesi: 56:42

for you too. Oh, 100%, 100%, yay, particularly, you know, particularly I mean, being an entrepreneur is, or entrepreneur it is. It's hard on. You're in there on your own and you're having to make all the decisions by yourself and a lot of it is problem solving and sometimes that's exhausting and sometimes you think, well, I've been trying to problem solve this for a long, long time and it's just not happening.

Emma Dhesi: 57:08

And exactly as you're saying, is that because I'm doing the wrong thing? Is it because secretly, I don't want it and I haven't? Just I just haven't admitted that to myself, I haven't accepted that yet, right? Or is the universe trying to show me another way and open a different door for me, or closing this door and opening a new one for me, pivoting all the time? So actually a good example would be my first books were women's fiction, dark, dark women's fiction. I thought you know I keep going. I would start the book thinking, ok, this time it's going to be a nice light kind of rom-com type thing, something fun, something light, and then by chapter two we've gone down a really dark path and something awful has happened.

Carissa Andrews: 57:51

You're trying to exorcise some demons, Emma.

Emma Dhesi: 58:01

Yeah, I absolutely was. So then I thought, well, um, why don't I just go for it, why don't I just go down the full-on thriller route? And so I've. I've gone down that route and tried to hit all the stereotypes and the tropes and, you know, the genre conventions, but it's not been good. The first thriller I wrote was okay, you know, it was quite good but not great. And then the second one, I just could not get to work, and so after two years of kind of trying to figure this book out, I've had to accept. First of all I just I don't think I'm quite smart enough to write a thriller, don't think I've quite managed that yet, and so I don't agree with that.

Emma Dhesi: 58:35

I don't agree with that. So I've pivoted and gone back to women's fiction and there was quite a relief that came with that. I felt like I was putting on a pair of slippers again. You know, something comfortable, something I'm familiar with. So I get to make a choice at some stage.

Emma Dhesi: 58:51

Do I stick with this? Is this really what I'm supposed to be writing, and stop trying to fight it. Stick with the women's fiction. Or, you know, later down the line, after I've gone through a little bit more growth and maybe understood things a little bit better, or brought my own voice to the thriller genre, instead of trying to write the next, write the next Freda McFadden or John Myers, but write my book. Then maybe the fun bit will come and the success will come, because I've I've had that level of growth. So I don't know what will happen. I am sort of trying to stay open and see where the universe is going to direct me to, but sometimes that's. I don't know if you find this, carissa, but sometimes the biggest challenge is for me is to open my ears and kind of listen and stop trying to do it my way, but actually listen to what I'm being directed to do following the breadcrumbs from the universe.

Carissa Andrews: 59:47

it's interesting what you're talking about too.

Carissa Andrews: 59:48

It's like it, I think, um, if my audience is listening, what's so fascinating about what you just said is that, even when you know all the steps, even when you know all the rules and you know the genre conventions, it doesn't we're still human, right?

Carissa Andrews: 1:00:03

It doesn't mean we're gonna always be perfect. I think about, like myself, with manifestation, like we still trip ourselves. We can know how manifestation works, we can teach how manifestation works, but we still have our own human brains and our own human stuff that we're healing and working through. And sometimes we trip ourselves up and we get caught in the same BS that we're teaching you not to be in, like right, and so it's like we're still human and we're still trying to do all the things. But sometimes you just gotta you gotta go through the lesson and you gotta learn the thing again and you gotta start over. And yeah, it just it's part of the process for some of us, because we were trying, I think about it and I've taught about it. Where's that learning spiral? Right, we start at the top and we keep going, and sometimes we just got to keep learning that lesson until we really get it.

Emma Dhesi: 1:00:47

I know Well, I 100% agree, but isn't it frustrating? You think I've done this 10 times already. I know this. Why am I still doing the same?

Carissa Andrews: 1:00:55

thing and then all of a sudden it's like there's obviously something here I need to heal. What is it? What is it? I'm going to stop doing the things for a minute. That was me last summer. I'm like, nope, nope, I'm, I gotta. Obviously I've got some inward stuff I gotta do. Shadow work comes out in your child work comes out.

Emma Dhesi: 1:01:14

Hypnosis come out, like all the things yeah, yeah, and that could be the same for some of the people listening today, and they may be in the back of their brain that they know, they know there's things that they need to look at but are not ready to go there yet, and that you know I, like yourself, I've done quite a bit of of work over the years, but there's still some things I'm not quite ready to go there yet and we can't do it all at once, but just step by step, by step, um, or kind of you know around that spiral. Enough times we'll get there, and with each release that we have then we'll get further forward in what it is that we're manifesting, bringing into co-creation and making our lives better. So good, so true.

Carissa Andrews: 1:01:57

Okay. So, emma, you're teaching a masterclass for our Author Revolution Masterclass membership. See if I can speak that real fast. It's going to be happening on Friday, march 21st 2025 at 1 pm CDT if anyone's listening, which I know you are. So how is that class going to expand on what we've been discussing today, and what can attendees expect to take away that they might not be getting anywhere else?

Emma Dhesi: 1:02:20

So oh yes, I'm really excited to do this. So we are going to be looking at those four pillars, we're going to go into a little bit more depth with them and pull out some examples of where they might show up in in a person's life and we're going to understand, delve into the sort of understanding why these things are key to our own success and why this is so, so vital. And obviously I come at it from a writer's perspective, but really I believe that these can ripple out to any area of our lives. So if there's if, if somebody comes to the class and there's something that they're feeling stuck in, but it's not so much to do with writing but something else going on, I think the exercises will still be really beneficial.

Emma Dhesi: 1:03:02

So we'll kind of do a little bit of a deep dive, but the biggest proportion of it really is is I want us to do some exercises that will have time and space to kind of reflect on some things.

Emma Dhesi: 1:03:12

I'll ask some key questions that will hopefully open up some inner dialogue for everybody who's there, and some journaling, and then, if people want to, we can kind of share about that, because one of the wonderful things about sharing is you often hear that somebody else is experiencing a similar thing there might just be a slightly different twist on it, but they're going through something similar or somebody else is able to articulate something you're experiencing but didn't know how to put into words, and certainly, when I've been through experiences like that, it's been such a relief because, first of all, it makes me feel a little less weird, but also someone has given voice to something I'm feeling and oh, okay, and now I understand where I'm stuck and why I'm stuck, and that in and of itself, can just allow me to move forward. So we'll do a few little exercises and then, of course, there'll be some time for some Q&A and um and uh and some feedback.

Carissa Andrews: 1:04:07

Yeah, that's so good. I can't wait. It's gonna be so much fun. I love doing exercises like this and being able to go through. I think manifestation is very similar to that too, where it's like, you know, I teach manifestation for authors and then I teach it for neurodivergence, but it's like it expands to more than just books or money or any of those things, like the principles apply and so when you dig in, you know, to a lot of this work it's, it's so helpful on so many levels and I just love it. I think it's so cool and I think being weird is awesome. I used to have a t-shirt when I was in high school, literally that said being weird. Um, what is it? I'd rather be weird than normal. That was my shirt. I wore it all the time. I'm like that was my mantra I'd rather be weird than normal.

Emma Dhesi: 1:04:46

I need that t-shirt. That's what I'm not writing. I need that t-shirt, yeah.

Carissa Andrews: 1:04:50

I was always that kid that was a little too advanced when it came to class consciousness. I think that was always the weird one, but the cool thing was like I could get along with everyone because of the fact that I understood how everyone was a little bit different by embracing that weird.

Emma Dhesi: 1:05:07

We've been using that word weirdness I hope no one's offended by it but that embracing that side of yourself. Um, you think, because you weren't embarrassed by it and you weren't ashamed of it, that it made other people feel more at ease as well.

Carissa Andrews: 1:05:20

I think so, yeah, because well, I didn't know at the time that I'm a number one relator, but I do now in the CliftonStrengths, and so for me it was like I can relate to anybody, I can see where they're coming from and why they're doing what they're doing very easily. I kind of blame that on my brother, I suppose my brother who had brain tumor, because it came very early on that I was interested to figure out how people work and how they're different and whatever. But yeah it, let people open up because I would never judge them in the way that they were judging others. Right, and so I kind of became that safe place. So like it didn't matter what clique it was, they they all knew that they could talk to me or that, you know, if we were in a group together because of a school project or whatever they're like, oh, she's just chris, that's okay. So like I was, I was always kind of that safe I was.

Emma Dhesi: 1:06:03

I was denmark or switzerland or something, I don't know and so that confidence, though to be part to be okay with that, because, you know, when we're in high school, none of us want to be part, to be okay with that because, you know, when we're in high school, none of us want to be different. The majority of us just want to fit in and kind of be unseen. And I've certainly stood out in our school. We were a very, very small school. We were the only family of color and my dad was my maths teacher, so I also had a parent who's a teacher in the school and so just a lot of things made me feel like I stood out and was different and was weird. But it doesn't. It sounds like whatever was going on for you somewhere. You were like okay with that and not trying to hide that, and just do you think that's innate within you or do you think that was something your parents gave you?

Carissa Andrews: 1:06:48

I think it probably stemmed from my family, because for me, like I had, like I said, I had my brother who had a brain tumor and so he was developmentally delayed because of that. I had an aunt who was like my best friend growing up, because she's about five years older than me but she had Down syndrome, and then I had an uncle who has schizophrenia. So to me it's like I've seen weird like you, don't you kids at school don't know weird. It's kind of like my personality, right, and I'm also very socially justice oriented, and so I didn't, I didn't allow people to pick on people like my brother Scott, Right, or my aunt Brenda. I'm like no, these are people like.

Carissa Andrews: 1:07:22

I know that these are normal people, like they might not look like you, they might not talk like you, but they have awesome depth and thought and all the things. And so I was very, I was very much like on their side. So if people were going to be bullies to those people, I was like no f off. And so I I knew innately that I was not as weird in their eyes as them, and so there was like the spectrum that I could see, you know, and so I kind of fell in the middle. I'm like, okay, I'm weird, whatever.

Emma Dhesi: 1:07:48

So it didn't bother me at all oh, it's so commendable, though, that that's how. That was your natural response to it, rather than trying to distance yourself from it and be embarrassed or, you know, pretend it's not happening. Yeah.

Carissa Andrews: 1:08:03

I think that that definitely let me um take on new challenges readily. Like I, I don't. I don't shy away from those new challenges. I'm like you don't like AI how weird are you guys? Because it's awesome. Like what?

Emma Dhesi: 1:08:15

oh, I need a bit more of that, carissa. I need a bit a bit more carissa. Andrews, that's what I need.

Carissa Andrews: 1:08:21

There you go just follow me, emma, it's fine, I'll show you. It's so fun. I love chat, I love playing with chad, so good, oh well, uh, we've talked about an awful lot, so I'm gonna say okay right now. If anyone is wondering how do I embrace the four pillars, uh, I don't know where to start. What do I do right now? Because obviously the master class isn't for like another month yet by the time you hear this episode. So where can they go? How do they find out more about this whole situation? How do they, how do they connect with you?

Emma Dhesi: 1:08:51

good question. So the easiest place to find out about everything to do with me is to go to my website, emma desicom, but specifically for the four pillars, I do have a little cheat sheet for people. So if you were to go to emma desicom forward, slash four pillars and that's the number four pillars, though you'll be able to download that cheat sheet and it'll be a good reminder of what we've talked about and probably a great thing to look at before we have the workshop, because then it'll be things that you can be ruminating about and thinking about. How do they apply to your own life? And now that you're aware of them as well, do you start to notice when you fall into one of those pillars and are you happy to be in that pillar? Do you want to change that pillar? And do you know? You just need to sit with that pillar for a while, and that kind of awareness will just help you along. You'll already be making a flying start even before the, even before the workshop that is so, so good.

Carissa Andrews: 1:09:43

I love it. Well, emma, thank you so much for coming on sharing so much. We talked about so many things today. I'm so thrilled, so thank you for being here, and I can't wait for your class coming up, oh it's a pleasure, carissa, so lovely to see you.

Emma Dhesi: 1:09:57

Thank you.

Carissa Andrews: 1:09:59

Wow, what an incredible conversation with Emma Desi. Every single time we get together, we always have such a blast. I also love how her four pillars to author success remind us that writing is a journey, not a straight line. So if today's episode resonated with you, take a moment to reflect. Which pillar are you currently in Awareness, acceptance, growth or fun? I know for me, I'm probably somewhere in between every single one of them. It's kind of funny because I bounce around and I'm back and forth and I'm reminding myself daily to have that fun piece added in, right, how about you? Definitely growth. Definitely acceptance for where I'm at and awareness that I can be accepting of where I'm at. It's a crazy cycle, isn't it? And if you're ready to take this framework even deeper, don't forget Emma is teaching our Author Revolution March 2025 Masterclass on the four pillars to author success. This is your chance to work with her and get the guidance you need to move through these phases with confidence.

Carissa Andrews: 1:10:58

Head over to authorrevolutionorg forward slash 269 for all of the details and to find a way to reserve your spot. But wait, there's more. If you're looking to uplevel your manifestation game and step into your millionaire author self, get ready, because the doors to the Millionaire Author Manifestation course are opening on March 1st. You can either join one of my exclusive webinars to snag a special discount or just make sure that you're on my email list so you don't miss out. This year's class officially kicks off on St Patrick's Day, so get ready to manifest some serious success Again.

Carissa Andrews: 1:11:34

All you have to do is head over to authorrevolutionorg, forward slash 269 for all the details. I will include information on the upcoming webinars and, like I said, sign up for my email list if you're not on there, so that you can get a special discount, as always. If you've enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with your fellow author friends, because we all need a little reminder that success isn't just about the destination, but the path we take to get there. Until next time, go forth and start your author revolution. Thank you.